Good Captains

Jordan93

Jordan93

Well-Known Member
For those CAs that trust the FO and ask for their input, thank you. My last trip went extremely well and I had an awesome captain. Weather was kicking our butt and instead of keying up the mic and asking ATC for deviations on his own, he asked me what I thought before he did it. We also started getting beat up in the FLs and I asked him if he could ask for lower or higher. Most of the time they just key up the mic and ask for higher without consulting me. As someone who will be upgrading in a few months, I do appreciate the captains who try to mentor and who let me help with decisions. End semi-rant:)
 
You've been flying with some very weak captains then.

You're supposed to be always training your replacement and if I just sit there and bark out commands on your leg in the weather, you're never going to learn. And then I'm basically single-pilot hoping that I'm doing the right thing, second guessing if you're in agreement, along for the ride, or literally don't have a grasp on the situation.

Good on you for finally flying with someone who actually knows what he's doing! :)

"You're the captain, I don't care, I've done that for ten years at "Brand X" and I'm not paid to make decisions" got someone a nice "come to Bejezus speech" a few months ago and an offer to "No worries, if you want, grab your stuff, tell the chief pilot that "I'm not flying with this •" and I'll take care of the rest from there!"
 
Derg said:
You've been flying with some very weak captains then.

You're supposed to be always training your replacement and if I just sit there and bark out commands on your leg in the weather, you're never going to learn. And then I'm basically single-pilot hoping that I'm doing the right thing, second guessing if you're in agreement, along for the ride, or literally don't have a grasp on the situation.

Good on you for finally flying with someone who actually knows what he's doing! :)

"You're the captain, I don't care, I've done that for ten years at "Brand X" and I'm not paid to make decisions" got someone a nice "come to Bejezus speech" a few months ago and an offer to "No worries, if you want, grab your stuff, tell the chief pilot that "I'm not flying with this •" and I'll take care of the rest from there!"
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I didn't really mind in the beginning when I was brand new (I probably should have though) but now that I'm getting close to the upgrade, it's kind of frustrating to see it happen still. I'll make sure not to do it to my FOs
 
Jordan93 said:
I've had some real winners that even had to tell me what kind ride we had when ATC asked us to say ride conditions. Thanks, I know what light turbulence is. Even had one guy tell me to say Delta after a Canadian controller asked which mainline we flew for:confused:
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I think there's definitely people that upgrade just because they absolutely HAVE to be the head honcho no matter what.
Hover handing over the flap lever is another one. Dude, 180 to the marker isn't a problem. If I look high and fast, maybe say "hey, you want more flaps/gear?"
 
Jordan93 said:
I've had some real winners that even had to tell me what kind ride we had when ATC asked us to say ride conditions. Thanks, I know what light turbulence is. Even had one guy tell me to say Delta after a Canadian controller asked which mainline we flew for:confused:
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That's the worst. I always called them out on that everytime. I don't think people realize that some have been FO's longer than some captains have been flying airplanes.
 
That's the sop for our corporate department. Even my previous hack of a 135 Medevac company operated as a crew. When captains don't incorporate the other crew member in the decision making its shows Poor airmanship.
 
JordanD said:
I think there's definitely people that upgrade just because they absolutely HAVE to be the head honcho no matter what.
Hover handing over the flap lever is another one. Dude, 180 to the marker isn't a problem. If I look high and fast, maybe say "hey, you want more flaps/gear?"
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I've actually started to add that to my briefing because CAs seem to do the hand hover a lot. I'll say " if traffic isn't an issue, I'd like to do 180 until 2 miles from the FAF or 180 until the FAF if that works for you." Most of the CAs are cool with it and it seems to eliminate the hand hovering.
 
Lunchbox said:
That's the worst. I always called them out on that everytime. I don't think people realize that some have been FO's longer than some captains have been flying airplanes.
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Whenever they do it I just think to myself, dude I know I'm still kind of new (1.5 years at the company) but I think I'm intelligent enough to know how to respond to "say ride conditions."
 
I get to fly with a captain tonight that straight up said to my face "I hate flying with young FOs, you make my life way more difficult." Then proceeded to rant about the standard reasons he can't move on, doesn't have boobs, is white. Etc etc. real peach to fly with. I've been here almost two years, so I'm new, but not that new.
 
Jordan93 said:
For those CAs that trust the FO and ask for their input, thank you. My last trip went extremely well and I had an awesome captain. Weather was kicking our butt and instead of keying up the mic and asking ATC for deviations on his own, he asked me what I thought before he did it. We also started getting beat up in the FLs and I asked him if he could ask for lower or higher. Most of the time they just key up the mic and ask for higher without consulting me. As someone who will be upgrading in a few months, I do appreciate the captains who try to mentor and who let me help with decisions. End semi-rant:)
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Report back after your CA checkout and tell us what it is like to fly with your former fellow FO's.

.
 
Ayork62493 said:
I get to fly with a captain tonight that straight up said to my face "I hate flying with young FOs, you make my life way more difficult." Then proceeded to rant about the standard reasons he can't move on, doesn't have boobs, is white. Etc etc. real peach to fly with. I've been here almost two years, so I'm new, but not that new.
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Hello bid avoid/pro standz
 
Ayork62493 said:
I get to fly with a captain tonight that straight up said to my face "I hate flying with young FOs, you make my life way more difficult." Then proceeded to rant about the standard reasons he can't move on, doesn't have boobs, is white. Etc etc. real peach to fly with. I've been here almost two years, so I'm new, but not that new.
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I see your "no fly" list growing.
 
I've actually noticed a difference between lifer captains and new upgrade reserve captains. Seems like the new upgrades always preach the same thing: "You're going to be upgrading real quick so let's talk about it." Whereas many of the "lifer" captains have been burned out and simply have given up with imparting their knowledge and experience/expertise. Ive actually been very lucky with my company lately and haven't had any guys with 'tude issues. We're a team. We've all got the same goals. Let's work together.
 
In previous life, the guy that taught ground school, taught sims, did our checkrides, and did our IOE - well when none of that was going on he was just a regular line captain. You'd be flying with him and he'd turn around "Hey Isaac, what do you think about xyz..." Even though everything I knew was based on what he'd taught me, and as a result I'd either be thinking along the same lines as him or not have a clue and rely on whatever it is he thought was right, having him include me in the decision always felt great. It's one of the biggest things I've tried to keep with me now that I'm in the left seat.
 
It's the theoretical "retractable dog leash".

You sometimes have to let your copilot take a wrong turn and as he starts to run the length of the leash (or your ability to safety guide him back to where he should be), you interject. People learn by doing. You're never going to be a chef, if, as a line chef, your boss always says, "Well, you're going to end up cutting or burning yourself so I'll make all the decisions and you simply carry them out the way I say do them".

Every captain on earth says "Oh, we'll do things by the book" but it's laughably idiotic because there's very little by way of a feedback loop that we have so a lot of us aren't operating via SOP and don't even realize it. Then the poor copilot has to play chameleon and constantly choose between "I haven't seen that procedure before and I can't find it in 'The Book'" or being complicit and complying with whatever the captain is doing or expecting you to do.

One of the best lessons I've learned is that it's not about "me", it's about my crew. If they're able to feel empowered to do the right thing, communicate and be transparent about it, everyone wins. No one is going to perform brightly for a pot-bellied angry tyrant.
 
You specifically mentioned in flight but I make it a point to ask "do you have anything to add?" after each brief starting with the crew brief on leg one of day one. 95% of the time they don't but right off the bat it sets the tone that their input is not only welcomed, but more or less expected. The additional input I've received after some briefs/queries is usually something I haven't considered and therefore gives me a bigger picture of the big picture.

Win-win.
 
Ayork62493 said:
I get to fly with a captain tonight that straight up said to my face "I hate flying with young FOs, you make my life way more difficult." Then proceeded to rant about the standard reasons he can't move on, doesn't have boobs, is white. Etc etc. real peach to fly with. I've been here almost two years, so I'm new, but not that new.
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What did you do? Confront him, respectfully? Or pick and choose your battles, letting it go and get quiet and look out the window? It will keep happening, until you no longer allow it.
 
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