Spirit Contract Now

Yeah, if you believe a family of four spends $20k a year raising their kids you're nuts. I'm sure some people spend that, on private schooling, organic prepared food, and a nanny/personal driver. But in the real world, kids take the bus, they pack brown bag lunches, and attend public schools.

What @jtrain609 said

Its not what I believe, its what I spend. Numbers for the 4.5 yo is the real down to earth numbers. That doesn't include any fancy clothing my mom keeps buying 'cuz she never had a daughter, there's no nanny and I don't pay my father in law to drive her.
Daycare, summer camp for the summer months, very easy schedule dance classes (she's somewhat interested), weekly figure skating classes using discount child labor instruction (she loves that stuff), random outings to fairs and pumpkin patches/movies/occasional arcade. 20k easy, daycare/camp about 13-14k out of that.
At the Chi burbs rates, if both kids were in daycare 50 weeks a year, I would have paid 30k this year just for that.
And I actually feel pretty unhappy for not doing as much as I'd like to with her.
 
wheelsup, I thought you were a NK CA. Are an AA 320 FO? The financial picture is going to be different for a Bus CA versus Bus FO.

This is the milennial part of me, but I don't get the concept of a pension. You mean to tell me that you could be guaranteed ~$140k per year for the rest of your life after Age 60 when you contribute zero to the company at that point from 60 until death? One can say "but I served 30 yrs in their service" and true, but you got paid for services rendered. Ultimately the only legitimate argument is "the airline agreed to the pension and it's an obligation, so pay me." And I get that. But I don't see how it works long term, when you have massive retirements and people living longer on average. It's almost like social security. They're using my money today as a working man to go pay for a retiree benefit and it's coming to a point where there just isn't enough to pay out in that pot of social security. So as a crux, they have increased the cap from 118,500 to 127,200 in earnings that are now fully taxed with social security. So 2017 I pay 6.2% on 8,700 extra, meaning $540 towards SS extra this year versus last year. This may be an unpopular view, but 9/11 simply accelerated to a death of airline pilot pension for something that was going to happen anyway. Like SS, the system is broke for long term, there won't be enough coming in to justify the payments going out. And unlike SS owned by the government, pensions were held by airlines, which are private corporations that rely on making profits to pay the bills. Profits go poof, what happens to pensions and pay/benefits for working employees? How does one expect a private corporation to pay for something when it isn't bringing in enough money?


Corporate America is to blame. And they changed retirement plans forever. No more pensions (for the most part) for the average working John Doe.

Since graduating in 2006 I went to an engineering firm that offered straight up a 401k with matching, and that is also what I've had at both the airlines I've worked for. Now don't get me wrong, I think every single airline pilot with a pension got totally hosed after 9/11 when the airlines killed pension plans and threw them on the PBGC. So for those people who thought they had a guarantee and then it went poof, I can understand they are trying to play catchup for retirement. Age 65 benefit them allowing the post 9/11 crowd to work longer than what otherwise would have been possible under Age 60. Still, it's not enough for many because they have a lot to catch up on.

But I don't trust a company. No way. It's no love loss, they pay me for services rendered, and I work for them for money. Sure you can enjoy your job and brand (and I do), but at the end of the day it's a business transaction. And I firmly believe the day I stop working for a company, is the day I get $0 in checks from them.

There was a time not too long ago that luxury cars were reserved for those in their middle ages or in retirement. My aunt was a VP at a huge bank headquartered in Charlotte but drove a 20 year old car. Just last year after retiring she bought a BMW.

Nowadays it's all about leasing and buying expensive things because 'YOLO'. This has been great for the economy but horrible for young people's finances.

You really should look up hedonic adaptation.

Maybe I am just jaded because I saw the effects of two large recessions and their impacts on my life and others around me. Some have avoided both by being in good places and won't have the same outlook on life. Others have spouses with secure employment. Even more have parents that support them even into middle age (wife as a friend who even at 30 has her house and car paid for).

As for spending $200k raising a kid, those figures are a joke and assuming paying for college outright and all sorts of outrageous expenses most normal people wouldn't do.

It's still a responsibility thing for young people's finances. I wouldn't expect someone in $200+k school/flight debt to to go lease a new Infiniti. I don't have debt. So I pay the bills, save, and invest. My son is 4.5 yrs old and I've put in $20k into his 529 account so far. Today the account value shows 23.9k and who knows how that will go. At this stage, is that too much? Too little? I honestly don't know. But I stock away $250/month into his 529 account. As for retirement, I've heard a general rule of thumb that by age 35 you should have twice your annual salary saved in retirement and I'm on par to exceed that. Every bill I get is paid in full on time, I have a full 12 month emergency fund, and barring a major personal disaster (death, severe disability, cancer, etc), I see only a positive cash flow. Of course all this assumes continued employment. But again, that's where the backup fund and savings come in.

So at what point do I sit down and say, darn I just spent 17.6k on a lease for 3.25 years, whereas I could have saved and invested it in [insert funds] and based on time value return on money.......? If I'm already doing that, with 529s, with savings, with retirement, then why not YOLO and splurge? I don't think it's fair to just say hey you totally screwed your own finances because you took a certain splurge action to enjoy life, so as long as the other metrics are on par. That's my point.
 
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This is a brutal story....

Couple who jumped to their death from Manhattan office sent their kids to elite private school despite having huge debts - and warned their children they could 'wake up and have lost everyone they loved'
  • Chiropractor Glenn Scarpelli and his wife Patricia, ages 53 and 50, jumped to their deaths from a Manhattan office building early Friday morning
  • In suicide notes, the couple said they found themselves in a 'financial spiral'
  • Also asked for children, Isabella, 20, and 19-year-old Joseph, be taken care of
  • Last year, Joseph wrote an essay which revealed his parents had prepared their children for how to cope with the loss of their loves ones
  • 'My parents repeatedly told me that I could wake up one day and lose... everyone I love, but no one will ever be able to take away my faith,' he wrote
  • Public records showed that Glenn owed about $213,000 to the federal government and nearly $42,000 to the state in unpaid taxes dating back to 2003

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...th-advised-son-coping-loss.html#ixzz4oHhmVzUd






It's sad that they saw suicide as their only way out, and leave their 19 and 20 yr old children behind to pick up the pieces.
 
This is a brutal story....

Couple who jumped to their death from Manhattan office sent their kids to elite private school despite having huge debts - and warned their children they could 'wake up and have lost everyone they loved'
  • Chiropractor Glenn Scarpelli and his wife Patricia, ages 53 and 50, jumped to their deaths from a Manhattan office building early Friday morning
  • In suicide notes, the couple said they found themselves in a 'financial spiral'
  • Also asked for children, Isabella, 20, and 19-year-old Joseph, be taken care of
  • Last year, Joseph wrote an essay which revealed his parents had prepared their children for how to cope with the loss of their loves ones
  • 'My parents repeatedly told me that I could wake up one day and lose... everyone I love, but no one will ever be able to take away my faith,' he wrote
  • Public records showed that Glenn owed about $213,000 to the federal government and nearly $42,000 to the state in unpaid taxes dating back to 2003

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...th-advised-son-coping-loss.html#ixzz4oHhmVzUd
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...th-advised-son-coping-loss.html#ixzz4oHhmVzUd

It's sad that they saw suicide as their only way out, and leave their 19 and 20 yr old children behind to pick up the pieces.

I have more sympathy for all the people he defrauded during his 'career'. Medical debt is a leading cause of bankruptcy, and fraudulent 'medical professionals' are part of that.
 
Yeah, if you believe a family of four spends $20k a year raising their kids you're nuts. I'm sure some people spend that, on private schooling, organic prepared food, and a nanny/personal driver. But in the real world, kids take the bus, they pack brown bag lunches, and attend public schools.
That might work with a stay-at-home parent, but with two working parents you'll burn through that in a couple of months. Granted, the additional income covers the expense and then some, but as a living standard it's just apples and oranges.
 
Yeah, if you believe a family of four spends $20k a year raising their kids you're nuts. I'm sure some people spend that, on private schooling, organic prepared food, and a nanny/personal driver. But in the real world, kids take the bus, they pack brown bag lunches, and attend public schools.

I WISH our kid only costed us 20K/yr!
 
That's just a snapshot in time. NK pilots will get a new contract soon enough and the wages will become more realistic to other large carriers.



AA E190? Still mainline :)

True but I think it's a pretty safe bet to say the AA pilot will earn a significant amount more over their career than a Spirit pilot.

E190 is the most mainline jet at AA. @L-16B is very jealous of my commandership.
 
What @jtrain609 said

Its not what I believe, its what I spend. Numbers for the 4.5 yo is the real down to earth numbers. That doesn't include any fancy clothing my mom keeps buying 'cuz she never had a daughter, there's no nanny and I don't pay my father in law to drive her.
Daycare, summer camp for the summer months, very easy schedule dance classes (she's somewhat interested), weekly figure skating classes using discount child labor instruction (she loves that stuff), random outings to fairs and pumpkin patches/movies/occasional arcade. 20k easy, daycare/camp about 13-14k out of that.
At the Chi burbs rates, if both kids were in daycare 50 weeks a year, I would have paid 30k this year just for that.
And I actually feel pretty unhappy for not doing as much as I'd like to with her.
If you read that article I posted almost 1/3 of their quoted cost is housing which makes no sense because you're still going to live in a house. I guess if you were single you could rent a room somewhere but that is stretching it IMO. That is what I mean about fantasy numbers, it was clickbait.
 
wheelsup, I thought you were a NK CA. Are an AA 320 FO? The financial picture is going to be different for a Bus CA versus Bus FO.

This is the milennial part of me, but I don't get the concept of a pension. You mean to tell me that you could be guaranteed ~$140k per year for the rest of your life after Age 60 when you contribute zero to the company at that point from 60 until death? One can say "but I served 30 yrs in their service" and true, but you got paid for services rendered. Ultimately the only legitimate argument is "the airline agreed to the pension and it's an obligation, so pay me." And I get that. But I don't see how it works long term, when you have massive retirements and people living longer on average. It's almost like social security. They're using my money today as a working man to go pay for a retiree benefit and it's coming to a point where there just isn't enough to pay out in that pot of social security. So as a crux, they have increased the cap from 118,500 to 127,200 in earnings that are now fully taxed with social security. So 2017 I pay 6.2% on 8,700 extra, meaning $540 towards SS extra this year versus last year. This may be an unpopular view, but 9/11 simply accelerated to a death of airline pilot pension for something that was going to happen anyway. Like SS, the system is broke for long term, there won't be enough coming in to justify the payments going out. And unlike SS owned by the government, pensions were held by airlines, which are private corporations that rely on making profits to pay the bills. Profits go poof, what happens to pensions and pay/benefits for working employees? How does one expect a private corporation to pay for something when it isn't bringing in enough money?


Corporate America is to blame. And they changed retirement plans forever. No more pensions (for the most part) for the average working John Doe.

Since graduating in 2006 I went to an engineering firm that offered straight up a 401k with matching, and that is also what I've had at both the airlines I've worked for. Now don't get me wrong, I think every single airline pilot with a pension got totally hosed after 9/11 when the airlines killed pension plans and threw them on the PBGC. So for those people who thought they had a guarantee and then it went poof, I can understand they are trying to play catchup for retirement. Age 65 benefit them allowing the post 9/11 crowd to work longer than what otherwise would have been possible under Age 60. Still, it's not enough for many because they have a lot to catch up on.

But I don't trust a company. No way. It's no love loss, they pay me for services rendered, and I work for them for money. Sure you can enjoy your job and brand (and I do), but at the end of the day it's a business transaction. And I firmly believe the day I stop working for a company, is the day I get $0 in checks from them.



It's still a responsibility thing for young people's finances. I wouldn't expect someone in $200+k school/flight debt to to go lease a new Infiniti. I don't have debt. So I pay the bills, save, and invest. My son is 4.5 yrs old and I've put in $20k into his 529 account so far. Today the account value shows 23.9k and who knows how that will go. At this stage, is that too much? Too little? I honestly don't know. But I stock away $250/month into his 529 account. As for retirement, I've heard a general rule of thumb that by age 35 you should have twice your annual salary saved in retirement and I'm on par to exceed that. Every bill I get is paid in full on time, I have a full 12 month emergency fund, and barring a major personal disaster (death, severe disability, cancer, etc), I see only a positive cash flow. Of course all this assumes continued employment. But again, that's where the backup fund and savings come in.

So at what point do I sit down and say, darn I just spent 17.6k on a lease for 3.25 years, whereas I could have saved and invested it in [insert funds] and based on time value return on money.......? If I'm already doing that, with 529s, with savings, with retirement, then why not YOLO and splurge? I don't think it's fair to just say hey you totally screwed your own finances because you took a certain splurge action to enjoy life, so as long as the other metrics are on par. That's my point.

Wow a little too much to handle but keep in mind the way upper management pensions work is they get bought annuities, the regular joe relied on dishonest management who never fully funded accounts or raided them in times of trouble.

I agree it was crazy to rely on that and the bankruptcies doing away with it and going to a larger 16% DC is great for us, but horrible for the working public who are lucky to get a 4%-5% match. My wife works for a technology company and gets 4% match which is a joke, even my commuter paid out 8% which was still low.

Barring significant events most people would be fine if they want to work until 65. I find solace in the knowledge that we have enough passive income to continue our lives indefinitely with dual job loss, it's a Zen like feeling. In 2002 while in college I went looking for a job and even Pizza Hut, where I had worked at in high school, wasn't even taking applications. That really hit me hard.
 
If you read that article I posted almost 1/3 of their quoted cost is housing which makes no sense because you're still going to live in a house. I guess if you were single you could rent a room somewhere but that is stretching it IMO. That is what I mean about fantasy numbers, it was clickbait.

Didn't read the article, but my point was that the numbers were on the low side if you live in an expensive area.
Housing - that's bs to include that, although it is a factor. We went from 2 bedroom townhouse to three bedroom house with kid one to four bedroom house with kid two. I get the garage, naturally.
 
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