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- Thread starter A150K
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Hiboglossi
The Most Depressing Person
Ah, I see. I got 8 years from @FlySooner9 's post saying that an 8-year flow was a joke. Thank you for the correction. I will admit it was irresponsible to take that as fact without verifying that the flow time was indeed 8 years before posting about it.
However, 13 years is what the flow would be for someone who was hired when you were, so it could be completely different for someone hired now, for better or for worse. It could even be Eternity if American shrinks and permanently stops hiring, or goes out of business, or if the flow ends up being cancelled in the future.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Okay...so...I will say someone who only spent two years at any organization should probably not make comments about how well-oiled it was.
ExpressJet is on life support. People on the inside within HQ are doing all they can to keep the illusion up and it is absolutely disgusting. I have worked with a number of organizations inside and out of the aviation industry and the absolute level of tone-deafness that exists at and above a certain level of organizational management (re: not leadership, ExpressJet is void of any such thing) is amazingly scaring.
Analysts are starting to wake up to the lies being told to them by SkyWest Inc. The cat is out of the bag so to speak. Wall Street doesn't appreciate uneducated managers thinking they know how to make a business work or thinking that they know how to keep employees content in the world of mythical story-telling.
Ultimately, I am beyond disgusted at the level of smoke and mirrors being used by certain people. Know for the record that ExpressJet is not like any other regional. They have people in positions of power who will lie simply to keep naive and ignorant young minds coming in the doors. The recruiting department - how they sleep at night - is full of the same like minded individuals. They do not value intellect nor do they value direct input. They desire to silence anyone who doesn't think the roses are still blooming.
I legitimately feel for the CRJ and ERJ pilots under its employ. I made great friends and am trying very hard to get as many of them out of the sinking ship before it is ultimately too late. 13 year Captains on Reserve? The potential for 20+ year Captains to end their careers as topped out 8 year FOs pay wise when the downgrades start rolling?
The lies can only last so long.
((Thankfully I am lucky to have found a new home at an organization with smart managers, people who understand organizational culture, who truly understand running a business, who are not afraid to accept criticism, and who genuinely LOVE what they are doing versus LOVING suppressing dissenting voices because those voices don't tow the party lies (lines...but they are always lies).))
ExpressJet is on life support. People on the inside within HQ are doing all they can to keep the illusion up and it is absolutely disgusting. I have worked with a number of organizations inside and out of the aviation industry and the absolute level of tone-deafness that exists at and above a certain level of organizational management (re: not leadership, ExpressJet is void of any such thing) is amazingly scaring.
Analysts are starting to wake up to the lies being told to them by SkyWest Inc. The cat is out of the bag so to speak. Wall Street doesn't appreciate uneducated managers thinking they know how to make a business work or thinking that they know how to keep employees content in the world of mythical story-telling.
Ultimately, I am beyond disgusted at the level of smoke and mirrors being used by certain people. Know for the record that ExpressJet is not like any other regional. They have people in positions of power who will lie simply to keep naive and ignorant young minds coming in the doors. The recruiting department - how they sleep at night - is full of the same like minded individuals. They do not value intellect nor do they value direct input. They desire to silence anyone who doesn't think the roses are still blooming.
I legitimately feel for the CRJ and ERJ pilots under its employ. I made great friends and am trying very hard to get as many of them out of the sinking ship before it is ultimately too late. 13 year Captains on Reserve? The potential for 20+ year Captains to end their careers as topped out 8 year FOs pay wise when the downgrades start rolling?
The lies can only last so long.
((Thankfully I am lucky to have found a new home at an organization with smart managers, people who understand organizational culture, who truly understand running a business, who are not afraid to accept criticism, and who genuinely LOVE what they are doing versus LOVING suppressing dissenting voices because those voices don't tow the party lies (lines...but they are always lies).))
The flow is at 12 years right now and falling.
If you were a 2007 hire you're due to flow in feb '18, a 2008 hire estimated to flow oct '18. No hires in 2009, and I assume you weren't hired after that.
A '04 hire to a '10 hire is separated by ~450 numbers, or a year and a half of flowing.
*Assuming zero attrition and flowing at the minimum 25 a month, subject to social/economic disasters, Envoy imploding due to staffing issues, and the end of the world. YMMV.
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
A 4/08 DOH is about 750 on the master seniority list, even by your math bast case is a mid 2019 flow date, as someone who did 7.5 years at Eagle, never count on best case.
Soku39
Well-Known Member
Less than 750, when the top 300 aren't flowing.
As an 04/08 hire using ALPAs math puts you at flowing February 2019, less than 11 years, not 12.5-13 like you said with no real reasoning behind it.
This "best case scenario" is assuming zero attrition, and the contractually agreed upon flow rate. While nothing in this life is guaranteed, I don't think that's the "best case scenario."
We are arguing the difference of months in a flow to one of the destinations many people have been busting their ass to just get an interview at and have never gotten the chance. All the flows have to do is show up to class.
What is it now, almost a thousand people that are AA pilots now just because they were Eagle pilots at one point? How many people in this industry do you think would wish to have that chance, even if it was ten or more years after they started?
Silver Surfer
Well-Known Member
Hey guys. I had several interviews with several differents regional airlines. I picked TSA based on upgrade time and based on short time on reserve. Can anyone help with any additional information? I don't wanna believe only on the information said by the recruiters
SFCC/UND
Well-Known Member
IAD/DCA is pretty much where all new hires are assigned. Upgrade is around 2-2.5 years. Reserve is less than 6 months depending on your base.
Upgrade times and time on reserve is short almost everywhere. Do a little more research. If a recruiters lips are moving, they are lying.
Silver Surfer
Well-Known Member
How is the training? Im excited to start. IAD fly for AA, right ?! I'm very worried with the reserve time
SFCC/UND
Well-Known Member
It wasn't bad. There are great instructors here. IAD does United and DCA does American. Reserve shouldn't be too long, you'll be flying a ton anyways on reserve.
A150K
Well-Known Member
How's ORD or DEN looking for a new hire? Asking for a friend of mine who is going there. Fwiw, he's doing the seniority reservation deal for 90 days, so he'll be hitting the line with 6ish months of seniority I guess.
Grabo172
Well-Known Member
Same here... same thought. I start Envoy Dec 18th.
It boiled down to bases and flow for me. Since I’ll be commuting, adding DFW to ORD as direct flights from home for commuting gives a better shot at an easier commute. And it is nice to have that flow in the back pocket.
(The bonus day one helps a bit too...)
ozziecat35
4 out of 5 great lakes prefer Michigan.
I'd have SKW as a top candidate if they had that sweet bonus money all the other carriers are offering. But in this environment, they fall way short on pay. For me, closing in on 1200tt, I still have another year to see what happens. Looking for something easily commutable from GRR, so essentially looking like I'll be trying to find a ORD/DTW base. Crazy as it sounds, Air Whisky is looking pretty good to me. Shame I can't jump on now when the hiring is fast and furious.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
You want to be able to drive to work at Endeavor.
And Skywest isn't ALPA. Listen to us on this one eh?
ozziecat35
4 out of 5 great lakes prefer Michigan.
no decisions made yet, and we all know 12 months is a lot of time in the regional world for stuff to go 'cray 'cray.
