can't faa just approve foreflight?

[pilotmec]

AC 120-76C (76D should be out soon if not already)

Need OpSpec A061 issued with 6 month validation period where paper-charts are carried also.
Need an EFB program, iPad training etc submitted to POI.
Jepps has a starter kit that is mostly painless to get approval from POI.

Be aware that some POI's will tell you that the iPad mini can't be approved due to size but they are wrong since you can make the chart bigger and no where in guidance does it say anything about that. Also, if you use an IFR enroute chart in paper form, then that thought would make all iPads unusable.

8900.1 Volume 4, Chapter 15 Section 1: Electronic Flight Bag Operational Authorization Process.

http://fsims.avs.faa.gov/fsims/fsims.nsf/8900contents?openform&from=menu

 

[Autothrust Blue]

AC 120-76C (76D should be out soon if not already)

Need OpSpec A061 issued with 6 month validation period where paper-charts are carried also.
Need an EFB program, iPad training etc submitted to POI.
Jepps has a starter kit that is mostly painless to get approval from POI.

Be aware that some POI's will tell you that the iPad mini can't be approved due to size but they are wrong since you can make the chart bigger and no where in guidance does it say anything about that. Also, if you use an IFR enroute chart in paper form, then that thought would make all iPads unusable.

8900.1 Volume 4, Chapter 15 Section 1: Electronic Flight Bag Operational Authorization Process.

http://fsims.avs.faa.gov/fsims/fsims.nsf/8900contents?openform&from=menu

I had an iPad mini for 5 years. Then I got a new full-sized, "consumer-grade" iPad. I now see what Jobs was on about the 7" tablets being "compromised" products, and am inclined to agree.

 

[Roger Roger]

I had an iPad mini for 5 years. Then I got a new full-sized, "consumer-grade" iPad. I now see what Jobs was on about the 7" tablets being "compromised" products, and am inclined to agree.

Meh, a Mini is roughly the same size as a standard approach plate. Also fits beautifully in a GA radio stack.

 

[mshunter]

Probably not until the guy at the faa gets a percentage $$$$$

Fixed it.

 

[gne in prog]

I'll play devils advocate for a minute. While the iPad may work just fine, the pilots (especially the old fart variety like me) may have some unique issues with electronic charts. Remember to charge the thing, remember to update it, make sure there is wifi to do so, etc, etc. It isn't like there are standardized tablets or training - I've had to figure it out for myself, as I suspect most of us have. And I still prefer the paper plates. I mostly carry both, still.

For 135 operations, IMHO, it should be company devices only with company training. I don't think that is unreasonable at all.

Playing devil's advocate, if one can't figure out an iPad maybe there should be a no fms limitation on one's certificate.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

It is such a scramble to get paper charts when you suddenly get assigned a trip in a new area. It is not like I can go to Walmart to get them and enroute charts cant be printed.
I wish the FAA would stop requiring them for 135 pilots who have an active foreflight subscription.

Your company/employer doesn't provide you with charts for where you are going?

 

[ppragman]

Your company/employer doesn't provide you with charts for where you are going?

You must not have ever flown 135. Back in the day of paper charts (which some people still unwillingly inhabit) it was totally common for me to end up delaying a flight for significant periods of time because, "well hell, we never thought we'd get a charter there." This was even more probable flying freight in the caravan yet somehow only happened to me once - I had charts for one particular region of the northwest, if I went too far south, or too far east, I would have had to pick up some charts before I could do the charter. Alternate planning could get complicated under certain circumstances - can I use an airport as an alternate if I don't have a chart for it?! Stupid questions like these abounded when you were using Jepp charts with a limited geographic coverage.

 

[z987k]

Playing devil's advocate, if one can't figure out an iPad maybe there should be a no fms limitation on one's certificate.

This is a fantastic idea.

 

[mikecweb]

You must not have ever flown 135. Back in the day of paper charts (which some people still unwillingly inhabit) it was totally common for me to end up delaying a flight for significant periods of time because, "well hell, we never thought we'd get a charter there." This was even more probable flying freight in the caravan yet somehow only happened to me once - I had charts for one particular region of the northwest, if I went too far south, or too far east, I would have had to pick up some charts before I could do the charter. Alternate planning could get complicated under certain circumstances - can I use an airport as an alternate if I don't have a chart for it?! Stupid questions like these abounded when you were using Jepp charts with a limited geographic coverage.

I flew 135 for 5 years and never once faced an issue with charts. There are just some companies that want to get the job done and some that want to fake it till they make it. Charts are like engine oil, you don't try to save money in that department.

 

[milleR]

You must not have ever flown 135. Back in the day of paper charts (which some people still unwillingly inhabit) it was totally common for me to end up delaying a flight for significant periods of time because, "well hell, we never thought we'd get a charter there." This was even more probable flying freight in the caravan yet somehow only happened to me once - I had charts for one particular region of the northwest, if I went too far south, or too far east, I would have had to pick up some charts before I could do the charter. Alternate planning could get complicated under certain circumstances - can I use an airport as an alternate if I don't have a chart for it?! Stupid questions like these abounded when you were using Jepp charts with a limited geographic coverage.

Were you expected to supply those charts at your expense?

Regardless of "how it used to be" the idea that today, in 2017, there are operators expecting their pilots of get their own charts and plates is ludicrous.

 

[z987k]

I flew 135 for 5 years and never once faced an issue with charts. There are just some companies that want to get the job done and some that want to fake it till they make it. Charts are like engine oil, you don't try to save money in that department.

I flew for 3 different 135 shops, also was never required to get my own. The one even gave all of us our own paper jepps. Royal PITA, but ya.

@ppragman I think we've talked about how you have a mission to seek out and fly for all the crappiest 135 operators on the planet and you won't be happy until you have.

 

[gotWXdagain]

I flew for 3 different 135 shops, also was never required to get my own. The one even gave all of us our own paper jepps. Royal PITA, but ya.

@ppragman I think we've talked about how you have a mission to seek out and fly for all the crappiest 135 operators on the planet and you won't be happy until you have.

He kinda does have that going for him though.

 

[Mavmb]

We have to buy the paper charts at the 135 operator I work for; although we do get reimbursed for them.
even if foreflight is approved by the FAA, at many places paper charts as a backup are still required.

 

[A150K]

We have to buy the paper charts at the 135 operator I work for; although we do get reimbursed for them.
even if foreflight is approved by the FAA, at many places paper charts as a backup are still required.

That's lame....You'd think they could at least spring for the book of government charts every cycle ....Those things don't cost any more then $5 or so. And if you have 2 working EFB's, you don't need a paper backup. I haven't looked at a paper chart since I left AMF. Freight operators really need to get with the program. One of the few small mom and pop UPS feeders still in business that I know of has an EFB program using foreflight. If they can do it, places like AMF and Alpine have no excuse.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

You must not have ever flown 135. Back in the day of paper charts (which some people still unwillingly inhabit) it was totally common for me to end up delaying a flight for significant periods of time because, "well hell, we never thought we'd get a charter there." This was even more probable flying freight in the caravan yet somehow only happened to me once - I had charts for one particular region of the northwest, if I went too far south, or too far east, I would have had to pick up some charts before I could do the charter. Alternate planning could get complicated under certain circumstances - can I use an airport as an alternate if I don't have a chart for it?! Stupid questions like these abounded when you were using Jepp charts with a limited geographic coverage.

All the more reason for the company to have a complete Jepp subscription to every geographic location of the country they serve.

We have to buy the paper charts at the 135 operator I work for; although we do get reimbursed for them.
even if foreflight is approved by the FAA, at many places paper charts as a backup are still required.

Not sure where you work, but guessing it's a place pilots transient through and fairly quickly.....

 

[ppragman]

All the more reason for the company to have a complete Jepp subscription to every geographic location of the country they serve.



Not sure where you work, but guessing it's a place pilots transient through and fairly quickly.....

The old "is versus ought" discussion. I agree with you - in fact I think companies should get foreflight and offer that to every pilot on company supplied iPads... but places are cheap.

 

[BigZ]

in fact I think companies should get foreflight and offer that to every pilot on company supplied iPads... but places are cheap.

That's what we are supposed to be getting, mostly in lieu of all the manuals that take up half the nose baggage compartment since the approach plates etc are in the g3000.
We were, however, asked to not store any pr0n on there when that happens, so it's just a useless device to carry around.

 

[ppragman]

That's what we are supposed to be getting, mostly in lieu of all the manuals that take up half the nose baggage compartment since the approach plates etc are in the g3000.
We were, however, asked to not store any pr0n on there when that happens, so it's just a useless device to carry around.

Lol - even without iPads pilots will find a way to keep porn around. Awhile back I worked at a place where someone had taped a wet t-shirt contest picture into most of the flight cans, at another place, the company opened an inspection panel on a newly purchased turboprop to find a topless lady looking back at them with the following note:

"To whom it may concern,

NXXXXX has been good to us - please be good to her."

My favorite so far has been my FO opening up his iPad in the FBO to look at weather and as soon as he pushes the button for the screen to come up, various porn noises begin to emit from the device.

 

[Mavmb]

Mesa Airlines had porn under every panel in the cockpit when I dispatched there.

 

[CFI A&P]

at many places paper charts as a backup are still required.

Uh, I'm not sure where you get that information from but that is incorrect. Once again, I'll say that I work for a 135 that has JeppFD & ForeFlight and we do NOT carry paper charts. Not NACO, not Jepp... we don't carry any paper charts. Only paper we carry onboard related to navigation is the flight plan from our dispatch vendor. We do domestic, international class I & II throughout north, central & southern Americas plus the Caribbean.




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