NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
I'm sure the Russians know what's going on much more than we do since Spicer won't allow video or audio recording at the press briefings and has been ignoring CNN while taking questions from Russian reporters.
F/A-18E v. Su-22
- Thread starter tomokc
- Start date
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
I'll let others comment. I don't agree with you, though, on your perspective on this.
BigZ
Well-Known Member
There are three things is there that could constitute my perspective. Ok, maybe four
1. My guess that lack of communication before shooting down an a/c while Russian a/c's were also operating in the airspace being a major factor.
2. My interpretation of "В районах выполнения боевых задач российской авиацией в небе Сирии любые воздушные объекты, включая самолеты и беспилотные аппараты международной коалиции, обнаруженные западнее р.Евфрат, будут приниматься на сопровождение российскими наземными и воздушными средствами противовоздушной обороны в качестве воздушных целей"
3. The part about evil ugly aliens to unite the planet
4. Wish for the major powers (in this particular case US and Russia) to have a happy ever after without trying to compare who's got a bigger penis
So, which of the four above don't you agree with?
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
"Not now, Jack"? or
"You might consider giving the kid a break"?
"Ths business will get out of control......."
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
None of the above. If it flies, it dies. Every aircraft is a target. Those are real military sayings. Ask me how I know...
These are sound bites from Russia. Everybody knows who is flying where. Yes, it's a very convoluted airspace, and I'm sure mistakes will be made. But the fact that Russia is saying they'll now watch the skies is hilarious.
Once again, I'll refrain from any other comments. I'm where freedom of speech is not necessarily allowed, but you like to defend.
BigZ
Well-Known Member
Quote in English, quote in Russian, and that's what you took out of it.
And yet there you are.
We are on the opposite sides of FL when you are in FL (among other things), but a get together for a bbq one of these days might not be a bad idea.
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is absolutely the most relevant point of the quote you provided.
Yes, I have a job. I appreciate my bosses, and they take great care of us. I deleted the rest of what I wrote. It's really not worth airing it.
Your point in all of this?
Any time you're in the area, let me know. I'm on a short rotation home due to recurrent this time, plus family obligations over the 4th. I'll be gone from home over 6 weeks. I'm not traveling any more than I have to for the next couple times home.
With that, I'm really officially done with all of this. Удачи.
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BigZ
Well-Known Member
It can wait, no problem.
Hectic schedule right now too between living by FLL, new job in APF and family still in ORD.
One of these days. Удачи и тебе.
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Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
BigZ
Well-Known Member
@Stone Cold
Np.
Np.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
A Syrian SU22? That's like swatting out the kid on the short bus. I mean, you can be proud of yourself, but really, come on now.
Can't really take anything for granted when it comes to this. We learned that the hard way a long time ago with our USN F-4Bs and USAF -4Cs and F-105s, against the VPAF and their "ancient" MiG-17s early on in the war. So bad did we take that for granted, and it showing, that TopGun was devised to relearn old things we had forgotten, that only the Navy F-8 guys had worked on retaining. And why they weren't caught unawares by the same thing.
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
Yeah, I know, I was just messing around......................
Both of mine fit too though........................
Lawman
Well-Known Member
So funny comparison here on the pro/con of how we do things vs how other air Forces do things.
The SU-22 is a simple rugged bucket of a plane. It can be maintained by guys who grew up with no running water fairly well with little more than hammers and a tool box that's missing half its stuff. Our aircraft are obviously seriously tech heavy by comparison. It takes a serious logistical train to keep them operating but we have a far higher peak operational rate and we see problems and solve them far further out where the rugged planes go from "working" to "holy sh$t!" a lot of the time.
Because of that the SU's despite manpower and parts shortages are still being hammered and beaten into "air worthy"condition where we would be hard down. Difference is though while they can sortie a jet much beyond that these planes are very little in useful capability. They also tend to lose a lot more aircraft to safety issues and catastrophic failures where as we have a relatively low rate of issues for the hours we fly. That's not unique to Syria either. Some of our partner nation aircraft are such MX fails it takes up to SEC DEF approval to put US personnel on them. We are talking stuff like the fire lights not being installed or no working fuel gage so they fly with a stop watch. Just stuff to make a person go "yeah no way in hell," but that's reality in a 3rd world Air Force.
Kinda be interesting to see some alternate reality where our operational model had to adapt our aircraft and personnel to a situation like they are facing where parts and equipment just aren't coming anymore and you gotta make due. I imagine we would manage to monkey something into the air, but it would be like some of the Serbian Mig-29s that they were launching with little to no mission capability just to say to people giving orders we are putting something in the air.
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NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
Based on how much fatal accidents went up the last year or two just because of training hour cutbacks id say not well.
ppragman
No pasa nada.
To be fair, I've personally seen worse mx than this in the civilian world.
Lawman
Well-Known Member
I honestly think that's because our baseline for so long is that accidents and incidents are rare.
Look at the training we were doing during the Cold War to today, we are far far more risk averse than we were 30 years ago much less 50 years ago. Helicopter training in particular is far more reserved with very few of my peers being any kind of comfortable in the down in the weeds flying our elders showed much more affinity towards. That said they still bent blades and lost friends as part of honing the edge on the spear.
Used to be an accepted fact that there would be Class A's as part of training and now one happens we slow down, two happen we stop. Same with combat operations. We are in for a real shock the first time leaders have to start making plans and understanding that resources will be expended through losses not just think "I've got 29 sorties today, I should have 29 tomorrow." By the same token me and other Air Mission Commanders aren't used to the idea that an aircraft going down is excepted prior to execution and your wingman being shot down is not a world stopping event. It'll be:
Griffin lead - "Xray we are Phase Line Janelle, Griffin 23 and 24 are down request orders..."
X-ray - "roger...Charlie Mike" and you just keep going and hope they familiarized themselves with the recovery plan.
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