Lots of Entry Level Survey Jobs (CSEL w/ Instrument Rating to fly 172s for Pictometry)

The issue with being a contractor isn't just taxes, it's the liability if you're in an accident or incident with their aircraft.

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And especially with these types of operations, are you really an independent contractor? If you have a nice, flyable day, but can't choose to stay on the ground because you want to, then you're a W2 employee, simple as that.
 
Well that just sucks.

Yep. It was a total blind side to the people working their too and it only happened like two months ago. There's speculation that it was Alphabet trying to be leaner and more profitable and that maybe just the management at AAK somehow did something to piss Alphabet off. Who knows, but it wasn't that great a gig if you were trying to build time. No night time and their pilots would be lucky to fly more than 200 hours a year as they split flying with the other pilot and are half on half off. I believe it's also a no shadow type deal so they have to wait for clear days.
 
And especially with these types of operations, are you really an independent contractor? If you have a nice, flyable day, but can't choose to stay on the ground because you want to, then you're a W2 employee, simple as that.

Yes and I think it's screwing over their competition as well who are likely having to pay health insurance and pay roll taxes. I really wonder which companies have the highest labor expense per pilot and it wouldn't surprise me if AA was at or near the bottom.

The worst is that as far as I'm aware they haven't upped the 'per diem'. In 2010 the minimum GSA government rate for hotels was $70, in 2013 it was $77 and since the last quarter of 2016 it's been $91. There were some very surprised co-workers when they went to file their taxes and realized that their 'per diem' wasn't actually per diem.
 
If you're based in Orlando hurricane standby with Air America wouldn't be the worst. The big concerns I've heard from pilots are the no compete clauses and contract length and terms at Air America. They have gone after their mapping pilots for damage to the planes and have withheld pay up to five thousand dollars I believe. They also have asked for a big pay out if you want out before you contract ends.

If you damage an airplane at Air America, they will dock your pay to cover the deductible on their insurance. $5,000 was the amount when a pilot gear-uped an Aztec in Fall 2015. The chief pilot also said subrogation by the insurance company was a possibility, and recommended Renter's Insurance to guard against the risk (never mind the fact the renter's insurance does not cover commercial operations). If the insurance company were to sue you to recoup a claim they paid out for an accident/incident you were in, you could easily be financially ruined for life. This is the main reason I recommend against Air America and any other flying job where you would be an independent contractor.

Also, if anyone does go to Air America, do not sign a Hurricane Standby or agree to Hurricane Standby if you have any say in the matter. Doing so was easily one of the worst decisions I have ever made.

Air America told me upfront of the no compete clause which I do not care about, nor the contract length of 1 year if I'd start in may/june.
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I don't remember a no-compete clause when I was there, it seems like that's a new thing. Also interesting to hear the contract length is now a year if you start in the spring or summer, when I was there it was just through October. Not really surprised though, it did seem like they were trying to crack down on people only staying with the company for a short time.

And especially with these types of operations, are you really an independent contractor? If you have a nice, flyable day, but can't choose to stay on the ground because you want to, then you're a W2 employee, simple as that.

To my knowledge, the independent contractor arrangement AAFC has is not legal. There are specific conditions that have to be met for a worker to be legally classified as a contractor rather than an employee, and like you mention the ability to set your own hours rather than have them set by the "employer" is one of them. While the chance of being audited with the amount of money you make at Air America is probably remote, if you were audited and the IRS decided the contractor arrangement was illegal you could be in a world of hurt.
 
I don't remember a no-compete clause when I was there, it seems like that's a new thing. Also interesting to hear the contract length is now a year if you start in the spring or summer, when I was there it was just through October. Not really surprised though, it did seem like they were trying to crack down on people only staying with the company for a short time.

Which is absurd when you realize that working non-stop for 7 months isn't for everyone and they expect you to commit for a year with an even more expensive buy out than we had when I was there. The only year long contracts that existed were for pilots who were upgraded to Aztecs when I was there and that was only if it happened going into the summer. AA's been aggressive about going after people for leaving their contracts, but from one of the guys I knew who had money his lawyer sent them a letter threatening to countersue and AA's threats were hastily dropped after that.

Also, if anyone does go to Air America, do not sign a Hurricane Standby or agree to Hurricane Standby if you have any say in the matter. Doing so was easily one of the worst decisions I have ever made.
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It sounded pretty bad years ago when I was there for the guys who were stuck with it as there were zero hurricanes and they were doing routine stuff for meager pay around AAFC included painting. I ran into a guy that got stuck with it last summer and it sounds like they've got people splitting bedrooms all summer long. I think it was two beds to a bedroom, but maybe more in a condo and 'thrilled' seemed to be the furthest thing from what he was with the arrangement. There's zero reason to accept such a • arrangement unless they've made significant changes to the pay and terms.

I bolded it so people would realize what the hell they were getting into. I think we had a pilot's grandfather die during hurricane standby and they wouldn't let the pilot visit his grandpa while he was sick, but I guess they thought the pilot was full of •.
 
The issue with being a contractor isn't just taxes, it's the liability if you're in an accident or incident with their aircraft.

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Quoted for Truth. For anyone wondering about this, see what I wrote above about the possibility of subrogation. If you get into an accident while working as an independent contractor pilot, you could easily be financially ruined for life.

Yes and I think it's screwing over their competition as well who are likely having to pay health insurance and pay roll taxes. I really wonder which companies have the highest labor expense per pilot and it wouldn't surprise me if AA was at or near the bottom.

The worst is that as far as I'm aware they haven't upped the 'per diem'. In 2010 the minimum GSA government rate for hotels was $70, in 2013 it was $77 and since the last quarter of 2016 it's been $91. There were some very surprised co-workers when they went to file their taxes and realized that their 'per diem' wasn't actually per diem.

Yes, and the price of hotels, food, rental cars, etc. has gone up significantly since 2010.

And yes, all of your compensation at AAFC, whether flight pay or per diem, is lumped into one amount labeled "Non-Employee Compensation". Unlike the Per Diem you receive as an airline crewmember, for example, the Per Diem at AAFD is taxable, although you can deduct the actual amount you spent as travel expenses at least.

Which is absurd when you realize that working non-stop for 7 months isn't for everyone and they expect you to commit for a year with an even more expensive buy out than we had when I was there. The only year long contracts that existed were for pilots who were upgraded to Aztecs when I was there and that was only if it happened going into the summer. AA's been aggressive about going after people for leaving their contracts, but from one of the guys I knew who had money his lawyer sent them a letter threatening to countersue and AA's threats were hastily dropped after that.



It sounded pretty bad years ago when I was there for the guys who were stuck with it as there were zero hurricanes and they were doing routine stuff for meager pay around AAFC included painting. I ran into a guy that got stuck with it last summer and it sounds like they've got people splitting bedrooms all summer long. I think it was two beds to a bedroom, but maybe more in a condo and 'thrilled' seemed to be the furthest thing from what he was with the arrangement. There's zero reason to accept such a *I don't have the education to emote without using a curse word* arrangement unless they've made significant changes to the pay and terms.

I bolded it so people would realize what the hell they were getting into. I think we had a pilot's grandfather die during hurricane standby and they wouldn't let the pilot visit his grandpa while he was sick, but I guess they thought the pilot was full of .

I'm a little surprised threatening to countersue worked that easily, but I'm glad to hear it.

It was pretty awful when I did it, although they didn't make me do any painting. However the pay is low, only $450 a week, and you are still an independent contractor, so you'll be liable for double social security and medicare taxes. Because you're on "salary", it will still be $450 a week no matter how much work they have you do. a good 40 hours a week at the front desk of the flight school, in addition to flying duties, was the norm. Oddly enough, it seemed hurricane standby pilots were held to much higher standards than pilots out on the road, and Sherwood got on my case for not leaving earlier than the FBO the planes were kept at opened to take them on exercise flights. I think the sketchiest thing they wanted me to do was when I gave their director of maintenance a flight review so he'd be legal to pick up an Aztec they were buying from KHWO. We took a 172 down there and they had me give him a flight review on the way down. 30 minutes into the flight back to DAB he had an engine failure in the Aztec, and diverted to Stuart. So I landed there and gave him a ride back. I found out when I signed his logbook for the flight review that it was his first flight in 4 years.

Interesting to hear about the sleeping arrangement, do you know if that was provided by the company? When I did it you were on your own to find housing. I rented a room from a conspiracy theorist (actually a very nice man but very paranoid, he had most of the windows in his house blacked out including the one in my room, dealt only in cash and was a 9/11 truther) that was more expensive than my apartment back in Iowa.

I'm a little surprised they wouldn't let him see his grandfather, that's pretty low even for Air America. As much as a I criticize AAFC they did allow a pilot on the road to go home for a few days after a family member of his passed away. When I did hurricane standby they also let me have one weekend off to attend a wedding back in Iowa, although I made those arrangements a few weeks in advance.
 
I'm a little surprised threatening to countersue worked that easily, but I'm glad to hear it.

It wasn't a threat as the lawyer was a family friend and would've happily taken the case. If you have deep pockets you can stand up for yourself in this country, otherwise most people just can't risk a day in court. A lot of stuff in the legal world seems to come down to game theory. When you're a young pilot with a ton of student loan debt the stakes are too high for you to sit at the table. Supposedly a pilot when I was there was threatened with violating the contract for having to report to guard duty. The story I had heard was that when the military found out about that there was no shortage of heat applied to management and the 180 was near immediate and with groveling apologies.

Oddly enough, it seemed hurricane standby pilots were held to much higher standards than pilots out on the road, and Sherwood got on my case for not leaving earlier than the FBO the planes were kept at opened to take them on exercise flights.

The standard was ridiculously high for standby pilots compared to being in the field when I was there too. I know we had a guy get fired due to some gossip during, but thankfully they rehired him. I wasn't there, but I remember stories of one of the standby pilots being asked to finish a desk or counter and supposedly getting chewed out for doing a bad job, but my recollection on that story might not have been the best. Luckily I didn't have to do standby in DAB which I'm forever grateful for. The hard part was in getting your car down to DAB if you weren't from Florida.

Hurricane standby would be one thing if they were laid back about it, but they seemed incredibly demanding of the pilots that opted in for standby. I'd love to see how much AA was being paid by Picto to keep these pilots around.

Interesting to hear about the sleeping arrangement, do you know if that was provided by the company? When I did it you were on your own to find housing. I rented a room from a conspiracy theorist (actually a very nice man but very paranoid, he had most of the windows in his house blacked out including the one in my room, dealt only in cash and was a 9/11 truther) that was more expensive than my apartment back in Iowa.

Supposedly it was someone in management's father that owned the condo. It seemed like a step up honestly as it would've been nice if stuck in DAB for 100 hours or mx while working in Florida. Still it's amazing what we put up with back then.

I'm a little surprised they wouldn't let him see his grandfather, that's pretty low even for Air America. As much as a I criticize AAFC they did allow a pilot on the road to go home for a few days after a family member of his passed away. When I did hurricane standby they also let me have one weekend off to attend a wedding back in Iowa, although I made those arrangements a few weeks in advance.

I believe he may have helped trained you when you got hired as he was helping Sherwood with the training in Wisconsin. He was one of the guys who went to TSA so you can ask him yourself if you think you know who I'm referring to. I honestly think in hindsight management deeply regretted that, but it was
 
It wasn't a threat as the lawyer was a family friend and would've happily taken the case. If you have deep pockets you can stand up for yourself in this country, otherwise most people just can't risk a day in court. A lot of stuff in the legal world seems to come down to game theory. When you're a young pilot with a ton of student loan debt the stakes are too high for you to sit at the table. Supposedly a pilot when I was there was threatened with violating the contract for having to report to guard duty. The story I had heard was that when the military found out about that there was no shortage of heat applied to management and the 180 was near immediate and with groveling apologies.



The standard was ridiculously high for standby pilots compared to being in the field when I was there too. I know we had a guy get fired due to some gossip during, but thankfully they rehired him. I wasn't there, but I remember stories of one of the standby pilots being asked to finish a desk or counter and supposedly getting chewed out for doing a bad job, but my recollection on that story might not have been the best. Luckily I didn't have to do standby in DAB which I'm forever grateful for. The hard part was in getting your car down to DAB if you weren't from Florida.

Hurricane standby would be one thing if they were laid back about it, but they seemed incredibly demanding of the pilots that opted in for standby. I'd love to see how much AA was being paid by Picto to keep these pilots around.

Yes, unfortunately that's how our justice system often works. Whoever can put more money on their side of the balance scale will prevail. Since AAFC has much deeper pockets than their pilots they can pretty much get away with what they want, and most of their pilots are desperate enough for hours they will agree to most anything anyway.

I know there was hurricane standby pilot who was fired the summer before I did it, supposedly for being late to a meeting or something like that but was rehired at the beginning of the following season. Getting your car down was definitely the hard part, I didn't have a car for about the first month I was their. I drove it back from the wedding in Iowa. I'm not sure how much the company was paid by Picto for the hurricane standby contracts but supposedly it wasn't much, and AAFC wasn't making much of a profit on it. That could be why they had such high standards for the pilots compared to those working on regular projects.

Supposedly it was someone in management's father that owned the condo. It seemed like a step up honestly as it would've been nice if stuck in DAB for 100 hours or mx while working in Florida. Still it's amazing what we put up with back then.



I believe he may have helped trained you when you got hired as he was helping Sherwood with the training in Wisconsin. He was one of the guys who went to TSA so you can ask him yourself if you think you know who I'm referring to. I honestly think in hindsight management deeply regretted that, but it was

One thing that they did improve at AAFC while I was there was you do get Per Diem if you base in Volusia county if you're there for maintenance (but not if you are working on a project, since you could base outside the county). Incidentally the change came after a pilot who was the son of a pretty well-respected lawyer was kept in DAB for a 100 hour and complained. On the other hand, that same season, the LiDAR plane was in DAB for months, I believe because of LiDAR system maintenance. At least they didn't make him stay there but the operator told me he ended up essentially unemployed for all that time as a result. Of course he didn't know when he'd be called back so he was stuck waiting around back home to get the call.

Does the person your are talking about have initials RG? If so he didn't train me but I was working on the same project as him for a few days after I started. I haven't really kept in touch with him since he left.
 
I know there was hurricane standby pilot who was fired the summer before I did it, supposedly for being late to a meeting or something like that but was rehired at the beginning of the following season. Getting your car down was definitely the hard part, I didn't have a car for about the first month I was their. I drove it back from the wedding in Iowa. I'm not sure how much the company was paid by Picto for the hurricane standby contracts but supposedly it wasn't much, and AAFC wasn't making much of a profit on it. That could be why they had such high standards for the pilots compared to those working on regular projects.

I'm probably judging them too harshly on that and I wouldn't be surprised if they're gambling heavily on the money from hurricanes. Still I'm a bit skeptical when they're paying their pilots the same as at least 7 years ago when the price of hotels has gone up almost 30% and I know Skylens has been pretty generous with their pay which has increased year after year. I wonder how much their finances have been hurt from their abysmal safety record and all those hull losses, but they only have themselves to blame for that.
 
Sandhills Aviation is good, planes are good,management cares about their staff!

Steve Sherwood's an ex AA guy. I really like the rotation schedule he's worked out as it allows pilots to keep their relationships and social lives going as they build time. It sounds like he has no shortage of pilots as a result and I wish him and his operation continued success.
 
Steve Sherwood's an ex AA guy. I really like the rotation schedule he's worked out as it allows pilots to keep their relationships and social lives going as they build time. It sounds like he has no shortage of pilots as a result and I wish him and his operation continued success.

Interesting.. Been looking for a survey company that would work with my AF Reserve drill weekend schedule for a while.. I'll have to look into this more!
 
Interesting.. Been looking for a survey company that would work with my AF Reserve drill weekend schedule for a while.. I'll have to look into this more!
Just thought I'd throw my two cents in. I just finished this past season with Sandhills, glad I picked them over the other picto vendors I was looking at. Steve is a great guy to work for also. He tries to be flexible with scheduling, if you need something different than the 4weeks on, 2 off rotation he would probably work with you to try to figure something out. Job like this isn't for everyone, but if you need to build time then go for it. I averaged 100 a month(non rotation schedule).
 
Awesome! I contacted them on their website asking about it and got an email from HR a few days later telling me to submit my resume. Said they'd review the resumes on file in July/August. I've got my MEL addon in a couple weeks then I'm going to try to knock out a couple of my instructor ratings after that, so I'll submit an updated resume then with current times/ratings. Fingers crossed!
 
I completed a season with Ground Imaging and it was a good time builder. If you don't want to CFI, this is the way to go.
 
Hey all, anyone have any experience with helicopter guys switching to airplanes.
A lot of the survey jobs seem to want 250 TT with roughly 10 hours in type. If I had a commercial/instrument rating with only 100 hours airplane, would helicopter time satisfy the TT requirement? I'm assuming it's an insurance issue, but also curios how hiring managers portray helicopter time. Is it essentially worthless?
 
Hey all, anyone have any experience with helicopter guys switching to airplanes.
A lot of the survey jobs seem to want 250 TT with roughly 10 hours in type. If I had a commercial/instrument rating with only 100 hours airplane, would helicopter time satisfy the TT requirement? I'm assuming it's an insurance issue, but also curios how hiring managers portray helicopter time. Is it essentially worthless?

No, I did it. A lot of it would depend on the operator but most are so desperate these days that if you can pass ground and a check ride you're good to go. My first job was with the largest 135 airline flying Caravans nation wide. I had less than 600 hours fixed wing and was hired on the spot. But there isn't any specific rule so it's going to be operator dependent.
 
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No, I did it. A lot of it would depend on the operator but most are so desperate these days that if you can pass ground and a check ride you're good to go. My first job was with the largest 135 airline flying Caravans nation wide. I had less than 600 hours fixed wing and was hired on the spot. But there isn't any specific rule so it's going to be operator dependent.
Thanks for the info.
I have quite a bit less fixed wing time, but you've still made me optimistic! Cheers.
 
Thanks for the info.
I have quite a bit less fixed wing time, but you've still made me optimistic! Cheers.

If your profile hours are right you'll have no issues once you get your commercial add on.
 
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