PRM Approaches (KSFO)

F9DXER

F9DXER

Well-Known Member
Ok this question came up in training the other day.

To shoot the PRM you are required to have dual VHF.

So the question is if VHF #3 is on MEL (or died while in the air), can you shoot the approach?

Yes or No and why?

I say No, because you no longer have rapid and reliable communication with company.

The MEL book doesn't specify that it can't be done. Now I don't know if it was never looked at



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The answer lies in the time required to have both radios tuned to ATC compared to how the FAA defines "rapid and reliable" which is something like 8-12 minutes.
 
'Cap' Wilson said:
The answer lies in the time required to have both radios tuned to ATC compared to how the FAA defines "rapid and reliable" which is something like 8-12 minutes.
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Every airline I've been at defined rapid and reliable as 3-5 minutes
 
'Cap' Wilson said:
What is it you plan to communicate with them during the PRM approach? That's kind of a busy environment to pull up a message even if it was working.
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Even if you ACARS a crew, once their flying this approach their focus will be on execution an communicating with ATC. You will probably only hear from the crew if they go missed.
 
'Cap' Wilson said:
Looking at the legal interpretation from 2010...4-5 minutes under normal operating conditions.
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There was an advisory circular that stated the lawyer's had defined it at a fixed 5 minutes. This is something they talk at length about in recurrent each year where I'm at.
 
You guys are missing an important piece. Regardless of what the definition of timely comms is for dispatchers, during sterile cockpit procedures, pilots are not required and most, like at SJI, have a restriction in the FOM about responding to ACARS messages during that time. They are considered non pertinent communications and not required for safety of flight.

Actually, below 10k, our ACARS will not notify us of any messages. It delays delivery until we land. As for using #2 for the final monitor, it's only tuned to that freq while tower is in #1. We're talking a time span of 3-6 minutes
 
Cptnchia said:
You guys are missing an important piece. Regardless of what the definition of timely comms is for dispatchers, during sterile cockpit procedures, pilots are not required and most, like at SJI, have a restriction in the FOM about responding to ACARS messages during that time. They are considered non pertinent communications and not required for safety of flight.

Actually, below 10k, our ACARS will not notify us of any messages. It delays delivery until we land. As for using #2 for the final monitor, it's only tuned to that freq while tower is in #1. We're talking a time span of 3-6 minutes
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This is true. Many airlines ACARS are prohibited from receiving transmissions below FL100.
 
This is so stupid. If it was a situation in which the crew needed to contact dispatch they would likely break off the PRM approach or get it resolved prior to accepting the approach. :bang::bang::bang:
 
A80TRACON said:
Crew is supposed to advise ATC no later than 100nm from airport.
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That would entail getting the ATIS, actually reading it, and then briefing said approach. All more then 100nm away from airport. Better to just press on and then tell approach, "Umm, we got the numbers."*


* I actually hate that phrase, right up there with anything involving "the fishfinder." Nails on a chalkboard.
 
Cptnchia said:
That would entail getting the ATIS, actually reading it, and then briefing said approach. All more then 100nm away from airport. Better to just press on and then tell approach, "Umm, we got the numbers."*


* I actually hate that phrase, right up there with anything involving "the fishfinder." Nails on a chalkboard.
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Well, unlike the fish finder, having the numbers has a specific meaning.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
trafficinsight said:
Well, unlike the fish finder, having the numbers has a specific meaning.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
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It's a wasted radio call. Using it entails approach then asking for you to report getting the ATIS, which then means another call to report the ATIS, which prompts a reply from APP.
 
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