Cello No Go

F

FloridaLarry

Well-Known Member
Professional musician John Kaboff had a gig in Chicago. He bought a ticket on AA 153 from Washington National, and a second ticket for his cello. The flight attendant and flight crew booted him off the plane, claiming it was a Double Bass (which looks like a cello on steroids) and not accepting a factual correction. Cellos run just under four feet (with its foot peg retracted), double basses are about six feet (again with peg retracted). AA's flight manual says that cellos are allowed in the cabin on 737s, but double basses are not. A classical concert-grade cello can run from $20K to $50K.

Ground crew & gate agent apologized, corrected the error, refunded the cello's ticket and got both to Chicago on the next flight.

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2017/04...uying-extra-seat-for-his-cello/8481491572215/

This is slightly reminiscent of internationally-known cellist Leslie Parnas' experience with Delta a few years back. Parnas flew with his cello in the next seat, on its own ticket, to appearances all over the world. He registered his cello with Delta's frequent flyer program, under its own name, since it had its own ticket, bought and paid for. When Delta discovered this, they confiscated the cello's mileage (and probably Parnas' as well) and banned him for life from flying Delta. Another Darwin award for the home office.
 
ppragman said:
I do not understand why the crew would boot him - he bought a ticket for it...
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Well you don't see an inanimate object riding in its own seat everyday (minus all the mouth-breathers). It catches everyone off guard. Glad they got it straightened out.
 
ppragman said:
I do not understand why the crew would boot him - he bought a ticket for it...
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Choose your rationale: Power trip based on mis-interpretation of the rule book by cabin crew. Backing up cabin crew by flight crew overcoming rational thought (supporting your people doesn't mean accepting their stupidity and compounding it). Fear of impediment to egress in an accident (put the damn thing in the window seat - it doesn't use the lavatory!). We know PAX try to take all carry-ons down the emergency chute - picture a cello!

There seem to have been a bunch of dubious FA over-reactions lately (probably among tens of thousands of good intelligent ones). I don't blame the media - this is man-bites-dog. It all makes the manager in me think that there's an FA training gap somewhere and/or a group of supervisory overreactions leading to mindless adherence to rules, real or imaginary. Somebody with intelligence should look into the causal factors.
 
ppragman said:
I do not understand why the crew would boot him - he bought a ticket for it...
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I don't know 121 regs real well but from what I do know just because "I bought a seat for it" isn't carte blanch to throw anything you want in the cabin of the airplane.
 
Roger Roger said:
I don't know 121 regs real well but from what I do know just because "I bought a seat for it" isn't carte blanch to throw anything you want in the cabin of the airplane.
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It's not. The Contract of Carraige between the ticket purchaser and the airline dictate what is and isn't allowed.
 
Cptnchia said:
It's not. The Contract of Carraige between the ticket purchaser and the airline dictate what is and isn't allowed.
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Makes sense, not sure what the relevant CoC states in this instance, sounds like maybe it was allowed on closer examination?
 
Cptnchia said:
It dictates what musical instruments can be carried in the cabin of particular aircraft. Otherwise, someone might attempt to bring a grand piano onboard.
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Yeah, I realized my post didn't originally communicate what I meant and edited it.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Next time throw a service tag or an "Emotional Support" label on the cello and no one would have dared ask a question.
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Skåning said:
Was it an emotional support cello?
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Well I'm sure folks would get quite emotional if their 20k to 50k instrument was mishandled or broken by the ground crew. I'd want my instrument sitting next to me also if my livelihood depended on it. Hence why I never.....ever ever ever check my bags when I'm going to work when my company is willing to pay for it.
 
Cptnchia said:
It dictates what musical instruments can be carried in the cabin of particular aircraft. Otherwise, someone might attempt to bring a grand piano onboard.
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Part of the proximate problem is a bigger problem. To wit, attempting to "legislate" sense and principles. If contracts of carriage really attempt to enumerate precisely every item that may be taken on the plane, I would propose they're doing it wrong. I understand that in today's hyper-litigious world, many folks are incapable of acting without some list of rules prescribing and/or proscribing their every action in every conceivable scenario; and many corporate attorneys are doing their damndest not to allow them to try. So given that managers and lawyers want to CYA, that many employees are incapable of action without structure and stricture, and, we hope, that most folks still want to be as accommodating and accommodated as possible... why not use an MEL approach to this kind of issue? Instead of trying to anticipate, enumerate, and legislate every conceivable situation (a Sisyphean task), why not state what may NOT be placed in an airliner seat? Some of this is easy and already addressed by the laws of men or physics: no hazmat, no weapons, nothing that blocks an aisle/exit, nothing that won't fit through the door, etc. A real easy start would be to attend to the size and weight of the object. For a given seat type, define the maximum dimensions and weight of any object to be placed in that seat. Tuba or Cello or Double Bass? Who cares? Does it meet the size/weight requirement? If yes, proceed. If no, end function. If it's got sharp edges or pointy parts or parts that extend beyond the seat dimensions stipulated, it's a no-go. This just doesn't seem like it has to be difficult or open to the venal verities, vacuous verisimilitudes, or vagaries of the human veneer vacillating between vapid and vigilant.
 
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[QUOTE="...This just doesn't seem like it has to be difficult or open to the venal verities, vacuous verisimilitudes, or vagaries of the human veneer vacillating between vapid and vigilant.[/QUOTE]

Very Vell Said.
 
FloridaLarry said:
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This is slightly reminiscent of internationally-known cellist Leslie Parnas' experience with Delta a few years back. Parnas flew with his cello in the next seat, on its own ticket, to appearances all over the world. He registered his cello with Delta's frequent flyer program, under its own name, since it had its own ticket, bought and paid for. When Delta discovered this, they confiscated the cello's mileage (and probably Parnas' as well) and banned him for life from flying Delta. Another Darwin award for the home office.
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Why does delta care? He actually paid for each seat the cello sat in. Delta got its money. What's wrong with trying to collect miles on it? There is no money lost. People fly around with emotional support animals for free all the time, losing out on a lot of revenue by pax bypassing the "pet in cabin" fee. At my airline it's $150.

Money is money. They are getting it. Who cares it's for a cello? If anything, they should be happy. Cello's weigh a lot less than adults.
 
blee256 said:
Why does delta care? He actually paid for each seat the cello sat in. Delta got its money. What's wrong with trying to collect miles on it? There is no money lost. People fly around with emotional support animals for free all the time, losing out on a lot of revenue by pax bypassing the "pet in cabin" fee. At my airline it's $150.

Money is money. They are getting it. Who cares it's for a cello? If anything, they should be happy. Cello's weigh a lot less than adults.
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Doesn't have anything to do with money, it has to do with whether or not the item has been approved by the FAA to be in a cabin seat.
 
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