Delta A320 damaged by hail

manniax

Well-met in the Ka-tet
http://www.avherald.com/h?article=48a8329f&opt=0

From the article:

Contributing to the incident were the company flight dispatcher's failure to provide complete and timely weather information to the flight crew and the Denver air route traffic controller's failure to provide significant pilot weather report information and alert the pilots of existing and worsening hazardous weather along their flight route, as required by Federal Aviation directives, both of which led to the airplane's encounter with hail.

Remember, don't count on ATC to do your job for you.
 
It can happen to anyone, both external hires with experience and internals with none.

Yes, but this happened at a major airline that has made the mistake of hiring all internals with zero 121 or otherwise dx experience.
 
Yes, but this happened at a major airline that has made the mistake of hiring all internals with zero 121 or otherwise dx experience.

That has no bearing on a case like this. This is something that happens to people of all experience levels. There really is not that big of a difference between domestic dispatching at a regional and at a major. If someone struggles at a major with domestic dispatching then they will also struggle at a regional. Dispatching domestically may be slightly easier given how most equipment and routes are nowhere near as weight and balance critical as at the regionals. Workload is also much lighter than compared to the regionals.

Where the difference comes is throwing a new hire internal without dispatching experience straight into Europe, Pacific or deep South America dispatching. You could get away with doing that with dispatchers with regional or supplemental experience but dispatchers without experience need time on domestic to get used to dispatching before moving on to more complex operations.

Some of the best dispatchers I know are people hired internally without experience. The only reason that some on here dont like the internals being hired without experience is the thought that they didnt properly pay their dues. It has nothing to do with being a better or safer dispatcher.

Fedex hires mostly internals, Southwest used to hire mostly internals and still does hire a bunch, and almost every major hires a bunch of internals without experience dispatching. Some work out and others do not. Its no different than dispatchers with experience. Some work out a majors and others do not.

Having prior dispatch experience simply makes things easier for you if you learned and knew how to dispatch at your previous jobs. It does not make you an inherently safer or better dispatcher than an internal hired without experience.

If there are internals hired by Delta without experience that shouldnt be dispatching there, that is the fault of Delta management and the people who give comp checks that signed them off to dispatch. It should not be a reflection on the practice of hiring dispatchers without experience. A proper training program will weed out both internals and externals who are not up to the task of dispatching.
 
Some of the best dispatchers I know are people hired internally without experience. The only reason that some on here dont like the internals being hired without experience is the thought that they didn't properly pay their dues. It has nothing to do with being a better or safer dispatcher.

Fedex hires mostly internals, Southwest used to hire mostly internals and still does hire a bunch, and almost every major hires a bunch of internals without experience dispatching. Some work out and others do not. Its no different than dispatchers with experience. Some work out a majors and others do not.

Having prior dispatch experience simply makes things easier for you if you learned and knew how to dispatch at your previous jobs. It does not make you an inherently safer or better dispatcher than an internal hired without experience.

If there are internals hired by Delta without experience that shouldnt be dispatching there, that is the fault of Delta management and the people who give comp checks that signed them off to dispatch. It should not be a reflection on the practice of hiring dispatchers without experience. A proper training program will weed out both internals and externals who are not up to the task of dispatching.

I think any major that hires exclusively internally...or for that matter, any major that hires exclusively externally...is overlooking a lot of good candidates. I have nothing against an internal hire who is a good employee getting a shot in dispatch once they get their license, but switching away from limited external hiring to completely internal hiring (in part, to justify the existence of an airline's own dispatch school) ultimately hurts that airline's regional carriers (they definitely won't stick around thinking that having worked with their major's computer systems will give them an edge in the hiring process) and it also has the potential to hurt the airline itself, by limiting the number of people in dispatch who have worked at other companies and can bring their shared experience to improve the major they now work for. I am afraid that the lure of a reasonably high salary and working indoors is the primary motivator for some of the newly hired internals at DL. Now, a good selection/training process should be able to weed most of those people out, of course...however, I still think that the reversion to internal only is not good for any airline in the long run. But hey, it's their airline.
 
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That has no bearing on a case like this. This is something that happens to people of all experience levels. There really is not that big of a difference between domestic dispatching at a regional and at a major. If someone struggles at a major with domestic dispatching then they will also struggle at a regional. Dispatching domestically may be slightly easier given how most equipment and routes are nowhere near as weight and balance critical as at the regionals. Workload is also much lighter than compared to the regionals.

Where the difference comes is throwing a new hire internal without dispatching experience straight into Europe, Pacific or deep South America dispatching. You could get away with doing that with dispatchers with regional or supplemental experience but dispatchers without experience need time on domestic to get used to dispatching before moving on to more complex operations.

- And the place to get largely domestic, let alone primary dx experience is at a regional...

Some of the best dispatchers I know are people hired internally without experience. The only reason that some on here dont like the internals being hired without experience is the thought that they didnt properly pay their dues. It has nothing to do with being a better or safer dispatcher.

-It's a dues based business. May be easy to waive off if your sitting pretty at the top, but for those working to get there and seeing others move there, sometimes with less experience, only drives the desire for "dues based" to be part of the experience/hiring process at larger airlines. I've said it before and I will say it again, pilots don't reach the majors by walking in with just 1500 hours. They same should and needs to apply to dispatch as well.

Fedex hires mostly internals, Southwest used to hire mostly internals and still does hire a bunch, and almost every major hires a bunch of internals without experience dispatching. Some work out and others do not. Its no different than dispatchers with experience. Some work out a majors and others do not.

- Last time I checked FedEx expects your to chuck boxes for them and have some dispatch experience before given consideration for a dx position.

Having prior dispatch experience simply makes things easier for you if you learned and knew how to dispatch at your previous jobs. It does not make you an inherently safer or better dispatcher than an internal hired without experience.

- Your argument makes no sense. If the regs are the same and if a dispatcher can apply the basics at one place, they can do so at another. Same goes for a understanding of safety in dispatch as the fundamental is the same from place to place. The issue is a good response to the flight planning tools.

If there are internals hired by Delta without experience that shouldnt be dispatching there, that is the fault of Delta management and the people who give comp checks that signed them off to dispatch. It should not be a reflection on the practice of hiring dispatchers without experience. A proper training program will weed out both internals and externals who are not up to the task of dispatching.

-I will agree with you on this one.
 
I think any major that hires exclusively internally...or for that matter, any major that hires exclusively externally...is overlooking a lot of good candidates. I have nothing against an internal hire who is a good employee getting a shot in dispatch once they get their license, but switching away from limited external hiring to completely internal hiring (in part, to justify the existence of an airline's own dispatch school) ultimately hurts that airline's regional carriers (they definitely won't stick around thinking that having worked with their major's computer systems will give them an edge in the hiring process) and it also has the potential to hurt the airline itself, by limiting the number of people in dispatch who have worked at other companies and can bring their shared experience to improve the major they now work for. I am afraid that the lure of a reasonably high salary and working indoors is the primary motivator for some of the newly hired internals at DL. Now, a good selection/training process should be able to weed most of those people out, of course...however, I still think that the reversion to internal only is not good for any airline in the long run. But hey, it's their airline.

Well said.
 
I think any major that hires exclusively internally...or for that matter, any major that hires exclusively externally...is overlooking a lot of good candidates. I have nothing against an internal hire who is a good employee getting a shot in dispatch once they get their license, but switching away from limited external hiring to completely internal hiring (in part, to justify the existence of an airline's own dispatch school) ultimately hurts that airline's regional carriers (they definitely won't stick around thinking that having worked with their major's computer systems will give them an edge in the hiring process) and it also has the potential to hurt the airline itself, by limiting the number of people in dispatch who have worked at other companies and can bring their shared experience to improve the major they now work for. I am afraid that the lure of a reasonably high salary and working indoors is the primary motivator for some of the newly hired internals at DL. Now, a good selection/training process should be able to weed most of those people out, of course...however, I still think that the reversion to internal only is not good for any airline in the long run. But hey, it's their airline.
My sentiments exactly! This is something that applies to all industries, not just aviation...
 
So, here's an idea.

Let's make a sticky thread at the top of this forum section to trash the big D-WORD every time it is mentioned. I think sticky threads are made for frequently repeated drivel, right?

Look y'all. I was very fortunate to slide in to the castle while the gate was closing. And it is mighty unfortunate that some of my homeys didn't make it. Yes, I'll be pouring 40's of Olde English 800 on this for some time to come. I wish many were here with me.

If anyone out there wants to single my airline out for depriving itself of a wholesale lineup of nothing but the finest experienced dispatchers for duty, go ahead.

But, face it - others do it too in different ways. The "fair-shake" is an illusion at a large airline.

Let's take a few of the humane airlines that hire externally. One major (at least) shuts off applicants after a rather small and arbitrary amount then forwards a very, very small percentage of applications randomly to management. Once a sliver of a magic number of forwarded resumes has been reached then Human Resources pushes for the go-ahead in the interview process. HUNDREDS of people aren't even glanced at. In mathematical theory, the poorest qualified and able applicants could be placed in the most advantageous position for hire. Much more cause for outrage if you ask me, but hey on this one - not a creature is stirring not even a mouse.

Did you care to have a chest full of tobacco smoke in your lungs within the past year there, fella? If so, we don't need your tarry yellow fingertips on our keyboards here in Seattle, you depraved addict.

I could go on. So if you're going to lean on us hard then, by Gawd, put the flag on top of the pole and create a sticky thread airing any and all grievances against Delta Air Lines for their hiring practices, please. Because every time the name is mentioned, there it flows. Whatever you want to call it. But since it's repeated so often we might as well not have people search.

You know, to find that our new folks on the desk sit down with befuddlement at these newfangled computers, strongly preferring the sweet mixture of glycol and fuel to conditioned air in a stale office environment. But oh, how they learn to love it and just mess the heck up all the time!

News story? Incident? Must be one of THOSE hires! Nope, not that guy who is close to retirement and has been coasting for well over a decade. Did you know that his situational display is often obscured by an Internet Explorer window full of Breitbart tabs? For the record: I don't know who may have been involved with the story Manniax posted. But I'd bet money it was an "old pro."
 
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