Are simulator portions of job interviews unfair?
- Thread starter nbv4
- Start date
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
tl;dr: no
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I wish I could like this twice.
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
I merely hope that they are not aeronautically inadequate; if they are, that can have rather lousy results, BECAUSE THE JOB STILL INCLUDES "MOVE THE DAMN AIRPLANE."
(off soap box, carry on)
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Yes, but with half a decent effort, it's not hard to pass 121 training events. And as Colgan showed, even that part is "optional."
The union can and does go to bat for training issues, when perhaps the safest thing for other pilots and passengers is to let that pilot go.
BlueMoon
Well-Known Member
Agreed, though I would say a pilots work experience and training history would speak more to their flying competence than any airline could determine during any reasonable length of interview.
A sim eval for an entry level job seems reasonable where there is little work experience to make a decision off of.
At the major airline level, unless an airline is having problems with new hires with poor flying skills, I don't see how a likely prepped for and rehearsed sim profile does much. It does show you can learn, so maybe that is something
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
My work history, thus far (knock on wood) borders on the pathetically boring.
BlueMoon
Well-Known Member
Thankfully, mine too....mostly.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I think we can all agree though, that pilot interviewing has basically been taken away from the pilots.
Edit: by that I don't mean pilots aren't on the interviewing team, I mean the system that once was when pilots had a huge say in the process of hiring, getting pilots called, etc. Gone.
Edit: by that I don't mean pilots aren't on the interviewing team, I mean the system that once was when pilots had a huge say in the process of hiring, getting pilots called, etc. Gone.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
The history? Yes. The "no crap there I was" bar stories behind that history? No.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Zapphod Beblebrox
Inventor of the Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster
At one point in the interview I had to slow the plane down for the instrument approach. I had no idea what power setting was needed, so I asked the interviewer. He did not say a word. In hindsight, I should have gotten up and walked out at that point. They were evaluating how I fly when I'm put in a plane I'm completely unfamiliar with, not my actual pilot skills.
I am an old . I got hired in the 80's hiring boom. They all used sim rides back then. At AA you flew the 707, at Northwest it was a very detailed and printed procedure. They wanted to see how much you would remember. At Eastern it was a DC-9 sim. Takeoff go to a VOR and hold. Radar vectors to an ILS. The Same at US Air. At Eastern there was a brief, none at US. At AWA there was a sort of climb/descend constant airspeed while turning to headings thing.
I do remember asking at US Air why they did it they way they did. The answer was, there is no brief because we want to see, as the simulator session progresses, are you learning something about flying an airplane you are unfamiliar with. The US brief was, sit down. Is you seat adjusted OK? Can you reach and get full movement on the rudder pedals? OK ? Takeoff and climb to 3000. Then they talked to you and asked for a steep turn, a hold at a VOR and then they gave you vectors to an ILS. All raw data.
The ability to go from wild to a better and better performance on Heading, Altitude, Airspeed and tracking is a test of your piloting skills. It is a test of those skills at the most basic level. You are flying the most basic instrument flying skills in a strange airplane. Can you do that? Can you turn climb descend and track a localizer in a strange airplane simulator?
That's what they were testing; can you improve in that short session and quickly adapt to the simulator. Simulator sessions in an interview are not unfair. A sim session is in fact the most fair of any and all considerations. Forget work history and education. First and foremost are you a competent instrument pilot? Can you fly the freaking airplane?
I am an old . I got hired in the 80's hiring boom. They all used sim rides back then. At AA you flew the 707, at Northwest it was a very detailed and printed procedure. They wanted to see how much you would remember. At Eastern it was a DC-9 sim. Takeoff go to a VOR and hold. Radar vectors to an ILS. The Same at US Air. At Eastern there was a brief, none at US. At AWA there was a sort of climb/descend constant airspeed while turning to headings thing.
I do remember asking at US Air why they did it they way they did. The answer was, there is no brief because we want to see, as the simulator session progresses, are you learning something about flying an airplane you are unfamiliar with. The US brief was, sit down. Is you seat adjusted OK? Can you reach and get full movement on the rudder pedals? OK ? Takeoff and climb to 3000. Then they talked to you and asked for a steep turn, a hold at a VOR and then they gave you vectors to an ILS. All raw data.
The ability to go from wild to a better and better performance on Heading, Altitude, Airspeed and tracking is a test of your piloting skills. It is a test of those skills at the most basic level. You are flying the most basic instrument flying skills in a strange airplane. Can you do that? Can you turn climb descend and track a localizer in a strange airplane simulator?
That's what they were testing; can you improve in that short session and quickly adapt to the simulator. Simulator sessions in an interview are not unfair. A sim session is in fact the most fair of any and all considerations. Forget work history and education. First and foremost are you a competent instrument pilot? Can you fly the freaking airplane?
GypsyPilot
Mohawk Town
I had to fly the United 737-200 sim a couple years ago for a corporate pilot gig on a CL-605. Bizarre I know, but it was the only full motion sim in Denver. Anyway, no prep was available, just jump in and fly with a knowledgeable FO (737 typed contractor) in the right seat to do what you asked and provide basic information. We did two raw data ILS approaches, a missed to a hold, steep turns, and some other basic maneuvers.
The chief pilot sat on the jumpseat and observed. He said he just wanted to see how we flew, and knew it wouldn't be perfect. But he did want to make sure we knew how to fly. It was definitely interesting, and myself and one other person advanced from the sim ride to the final interview.
Compared to whatever other weird mystery BS is used to filter out applicants these days (including yours truly), I don't see a downside to a cold sim eval other than it is time consuming and expensive. But keeping the weak sticks out sounds great to me.
The chief pilot sat on the jumpseat and observed. He said he just wanted to see how we flew, and knew it wouldn't be perfect. But he did want to make sure we knew how to fly. It was definitely interesting, and myself and one other person advanced from the sim ride to the final interview.
Compared to whatever other weird mystery BS is used to filter out applicants these days (including yours truly), I don't see a downside to a cold sim eval other than it is time consuming and expensive. But keeping the weak sticks out sounds great to me.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
You know, that sounds like a terrible way to measure somebody's flying skills...
... but an excellent way to measure somebody's ability to handle a stressful situation.
-Fox
Basically, what @StoneCold said, but to add, when I was looking to get hired at Airnet, all the information about what was required to interview was readily available online. And this was before you interviewed. The sim Eval was no surprise. The crappyness of the Frasca was no surprise. And the methods to overcome those challenges were no surprise. With all that information out there available before you interviewed, and knowing that type of thing wasn't for you, why did you go? And why are you complaining about a 9-year old interview?
ShyFlyer
CAP Member
Can't really claim "unfair" in that case.
