Accident

Well I don't know how pretty she was or wasn't, or more to the point how it's germane to her culpability in the accident. It's pretty pointless to worry about pointing fingers anyway, I suppose. But I challenge anyone to tell me that they are 100% certain that in her presumable position, they'd have stood up to the boss and said "no way" until sayin "no way" was no longer going to help. *Shrug*
 
Listening to the ATC again, you can hear another male voice ('gear down' and 'vectores'). Looks like one male pilot was PM and the other male pilot was PF, commanding what he needed (gear, vectors, etc). At least that's what the ATC tapes hint at. The investigation should reveal which pilot was in each station.
 
SrFnFly227 said:
Without knowing the winds, the math isn't exactly that simple.

And no I'm not excusing them runnng out of gas. That's completely inexcusable and got a lot of people killed. I'm simply pointing out that range given in nautical miles could be way off depending on the winds encountered on the flight.
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Actually, it really is that simple.

If you take off absolutely dependent on a tail wind to get you 5nm miles farther than the max range of your aircraft AND you're not landing when the numbers don't work, you're a soup sandwich!!
 
[NOTE: LaMia Airlines owns/operates the crash aircraft]

Clips from the news:
"LaMia Airline's general manager, Gustavo Vargas Gamboa, and the head of Bolivia's Civil Aviation National Registry are father and son. Vargas Gamboa, the father, denied that the family ties allow him or his company any special benefits. "For this reason, I am not a partner, I'm a general manager," Vargas Gamboa said, explaining he does not own any company assets.

ALSO:
Alfredo Bocanegra, director of the Colombia Civil Aviation Authority, said even though a preliminary investigation pointed to an electrical problem, the possibility the plane ran out of fuel has not been ruled out, CNN Italian affiliate ANSA reported.

However, Bocanegra said investigators would have to ascertain why the aircraft didn't have enough fuel, because it was just 5 miles away from the airport."

5 miles, huh? Hmmm, that sounds familiar....Oh yeah!

Autothrust Blue said:
1,605nm > 1,600nm.
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dustoff17 said:
This crash really boils down to this...the math seems simple.
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SrFnFly227 said:
Without knowing the winds, the math isn't exactly that simple.

And no I'm not excusing them runnng out of gas. That's completely inexcusable and got a lot of people killed. I'm simply pointing out that range given in nautical miles could be way off depending on the winds encountered on the flight.
Click to expand...
 
The WSJ published an in-depth story Saturday of this week's crash in Medilin. Full story here (paywall): http://www.wsj.com/articles/miscues-doomed-brazilian-soccer-teams-final-flight-1480726672

The deceased CA was Migual Quiroga, co-owner of the airline. The surviving FO is Gustavo Vargas, retired Bolivian general, and father of Bolivia's aviation authority. The accident aircraft was one of three owned by LaMia, but the only one that was operational. Running late, they were pressured to reach their destination Monday evening so the team could have a full day of rest & preparation for Wednesday's final. One possible refueling airport (Cobija Bolivia) lacked runway lights. The next airport was Bogota Columbia, only 40 minutes away from intended destination Medelin, and obviously overflown. The crew never declared, saying only, "We need priority for approach, we've encountered a fuel problem."

In a sidebar to the story was this: "An official at Corporacion America...said Mr. Quiroga, the pilot and co-owner of the airline, had a strong incentive not to declare a fuel emergency because it would have led to sanctions that could have grounded the company and potentially put it out of business."
 
dustoff17 said:
[NOTE: LaMia Airlines owns/operates the crash aircraft]

Clips from the news:
"LaMia Airline's general manager, Gustavo Vargas Gamboa, and the head of Bolivia's Civil Aviation National Registry are father and son. Vargas Gamboa, the father, denied that the family ties allow him or his company any special benefits. "For this reason, I am not a partner, I'm a general manager," Vargas Gamboa said, explaining he does not own any company assets.
5 miles, huh? Hmmm, that sounds familiar....Oh yeah!
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And the Banana Republic Award goes to...

Oh, snap! Wait, we have three more late-entry contenders...

Eric, Ivanka, and Jared

Nepotism, huh? Hmmm, that sounds familiar... (no pun intended).
 
I heard a blurp on the radio saying they sat before take off with the engines running for 20 min to find a pax's video game. Sad, so sad.
 
dustoff17 said:
Actually, it really is that simple.

If you take off absolutely dependent on a tail wind to get you 5nm miles farther than the max range of your aircraft AND you're not landing when the numbers don't work, you're a soup sandwich!!
Click to expand...

Wind is part of flight planning. A 70KT tailwind for four hours gets you an extra 280nm. Taking off dependent on wind to get you to your destination is not an issue. It's the 'AND' that makes the soup.
 
tomokc said:
Do Columbian ATC procedures differ from ours in the States, i.e., if this was in the US would the outcome have been any different?
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Standard ICAO regulations there. Standard phraseology applies. Yet, if they bent the rules in something as major as fuel reserves, it explains why they didn't stick to something lesser, like phraseology. By the time they said the actual word EMMERGENCY the engines had already starved out. They kept saying we need priority (Didn't Avianca 52 teach us anything about that word?) and IMHO they cought it when it was too late.
 
Emergency isn't the word you use.

MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY. Then state WHAT you are going to do.


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