QoL while commuting and what not...

JDean3204 said:
As the majority of us are navigating our way through our careers with families, at times we are faced with hard decisions to make in order to keep solid roots intact. I am lucky to live within an hour of both my girlfriends(pretty much wife) mother and my parents. As we are in our late 20's and have been together since we were 18/19 years old, kids often come up in our discussion. Honestly, the only reason we do not have children yet is because of me, getting out of the service and starting flight school then flying for a peanut paying first career job did not seem like a great time to have a child. I am a few weeks out from training at my first 121 carrier, which will still be peanut paying for the first year or at least until I upgrade. So for the sake of providing a decent life for a little one, I am putting kids on hold yet a few more years.

With that being said, I now live in Portland, Oregon. Our families live an hour south in Salem, Oregon. We have been floating the idea of moving back to Salem to start developing those roots. As long as I am PDX or even SEA based, living in Salem is a non issue, either an hour drive to PDX or a 3 1/2 hour drive to SEA. The cost of living is getting out of control in Portland, the rent is rising at such a fast rate we are about to pay 70% more for the same place we moved into 5 years ago... Salem is much cheaper, a better chance to buy a house without spending 300K on a "fixer upper". As I am constantly thinking years ahead of myself, I know that SEA or PDX is not a universal base such as ORD, LAX or DFW... I just have no desire to move my family to those locations as there will be no support structure for them when I am at work. If it was for a job that I would be home every night, I would consider it. Of course I would really like to fly for AS someday, but as a realist I know that you choose the first "career carrier" that calls. Plus, I would really love to have my kids growing up close to their grandparents, that would mean a lot to them, myself and my parents.

So here are the questions since I just filled you in with all of the boring details...

How much does commuting really effect your QoL?

If you are a commuter, what is the reason for the commute? Your wife/husband and kids?

Have you ever regretted not just moving to base and telling your wife/husband to suck it up?

With seniority and bidding systems, how long until you can bid trips that have at least 4 days between duty periods? Do you even go home if you have 1 or 2 days off between duty periods?

Very long and dry, I know.... But just wondering if there are others out there who sacrifice their time off in order to be with their families.
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Here's my commuting story. I was hired at VX and commuted for about 6 months from DTW - SFO. At the time where I was living in Michigan, her parents were 12 minutes away, my parents were 3 hr 45 minutes away driving. Since we had a baby coming, I took the plunge and moved to SFO. While I had great QOL there in terms of living in base and doing 1 and 2-day trips, the lifestyle was basically exile from everyone we knew (family, let alone friends). In the ~15 months I lived in the SFO area, my parents came once to see the baby. I quickly realized that living that far from family with a growing child was not going to be a good long term prospect. So when NYC opened I took the plunge and now live ~ 6 hr drive to my parents and a quick 1.5 hr flight to hers. Plus, I'm living in the same city that I was when we first moved to this country, so it feels like being back in an old home.

As for the commute from DTW to SFO, I had Deltanet access which made it a little easier in the sense I could see the loads and plan ahead. I don't think I minded the distance that much with a nonstop flight. One problem was the only nonstop was Delta. Worst part of it was having to 2-leg it through ORD or MSP on occasion, and one time a 3 legger SFO-MSP-MSN-DTW. That was brutal. My primary issues were being bumped from the jumpseat because obviously Delta was not my own metal and they have priority.

If NYC was to close as result of the AS merger, there is no way I'd move again to California or even PDX/SEA, let alone ANC. I'd be forced to commute to LAX. That would suck. But like you said, with seniority and PBS, you can bid 4-day trips and even those trips that layover in your own home base. We have a fairly decent presence in LGA/JFK/EWR that if they were to close this base, they would have to have a crap ton of trips that originate in SFO and LAX that overnight in the NYC airports. I guess I would just bid those trips and then go home for the overnights. That would help.

Having only 1 or 2 days off in between would make it hard but I know people who commute even with that just to get some time at home with family. My record for "shortest" time at home for a commute was initial newhire class at VX. We finished Friday the first week, I took a redeye Friday night to DTW, arrived ~7 am at home in MI, to the rest of that day (Saturday) at home, and then Sunday took a 3pm flight back to SFO for continuing class on Monday. That was basically ~10 hrs of block flight commute for literally 31 hrs at home.

I have moved more than enough for the airlines and frankly I'm tired of it. I bought my current place in a great short sale and have found a place I can call home, relatively close to family, and have returned to the place I used to live 20+ years ago.

My personal opinion with young kids, you need a family support network nearby. Either that or get your mom or her mom or someone to come to you wherever you live and help out for a long time once the baby is born.
 
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
My personal opinion with young kids, you need a family support network nearby. Either that or get your mom or her mom or someone to come to you wherever you live and help out for a long time once the baby is born.
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This. I cannot stress this enough IF you even think it will be a factor. My folks live 20 minutes one way, my wife's 30 minutes the other way, plus various friends and family around. I cannot imagine the added stress (and cost) of needing a babysitter or added daycare. My wife is a strong person, but she's not superhuman (though she might be). Everyone needs help now and again, a decent support group eases the burden.

For those of you who might be parents soon or considering it, daycare for us at a moderately priced facility only 3 days a week was around $1200/month, more or less depending on the days of the month. Western PA is relatively cheap too. Only 3 days a week because my mother in law would watch the kids when I was on a trip. Also, most daycare facilities make you commit to a schedule. The boys (I have twins) went to daycare if I was home or not. It was sort of hard to do it, but it also gave me a chance to catch-up on the to-do list from when I was away. Still, I was at home and without my boys. You didn't have to send them, but you'd still lose the money and raise the ire of the daycare. In PA, they are only allowed a certain amount of kids per caregiver, so they'd schedule accordingly. Now, my kids are 5 and are at full day kindergarten. Now the cost of daycare is gone, but now it's "Who's putting the kids/getting them off the bus?".

As it's been said, being a pilot is a lifestyle, not just a career. Everyone must be on-board( no pun intended) or suffering will occur, even if you don't commute. Commuting only adds another level of complexity. Worse if you're two-legging it ( small airport to a hub to your base)
 
Little late to the party but my wife was once ok with me commuting. Once we had a kid and I was based at home briefly that went out the window. We moved away from family but in a way we now have more flexibility with all the help in our neighborhood, need to find a good one IMO. Most of us are all in the same shoes and really help each other out. Now I have a 40 min drive and don't care about sign in times, etc. We have decided we will move when/if need be. Thankfully her family lives in our JR base so plan B is to go there.

Also piece of advice @Cherokee_Cruiser quit talking openly about having DLNET access.
 
Plata said:
I've seen commuters get plenty worked up about problems with their commute (arriving too late to catch their preferred flight home, finding the cockpit and cabin seats are already taken, getting bumped out of the cockpit by somebody with seniority, etc). I think these guys are heading for an ulcer, or maybe a heart attack.

I've seen other commuters who take a more easy-going approach, too. These guys seem to have embraced the fact that they control almost nothing about their commute except their attitude and knowledge of their options. When they don't get a seat I've seen them thank the gate agent for trying to get them on and then go to their Plan B (or C or D . . .). This seems to be the healthier approach.

If you're a commuter you're going to have to make a conscious choice to be in one group or the other.

One other thought: in these forums I've read plenty of angst about being away from spouses, children, parents, pets, etc. Even when someone lives in base they will be away from home quite a lot. That's the nature of this career. You, your spouse, your kids, and your parents need to reconcile themselves to this fact. And if being away from home a lot just isn't an alternative it's much better to get out now rather than becoming the bitter, resentful person who is angry that the system won't change to accommodate their needs.
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Quoted for truth, emphasize, and reiteration.

There really are two kinds of commuters. You have the "Meh" commuters and the "chair/window" commuters.

The Meh guys are the guys that can manage a commute. We understand, like Plata said, that we don't control the commute. We are along for the ride and commuting is just part of the job. We accept that we may have to spend an extra night in base on the front end, the back end, or sometimes both. When we don't make it on a flight we calmly go and wait for the next flight. If it's the last flight of the night, we go and find a place to sleep. Life goes on, and we don't get an ulcer. We don't care. Sure, we want to go home, but we know that's not up to us.

The chair/window guys simply can't handle that. When they can't get on a flight or are stuck in base a night, they tend to flip out and want to throw a chair through a window. These are also the guys who take a 2 leg commute to MEM so they can catch a red eye on FDX that gets them home 3 hours earlier in the morning. These are also the guys who take the absolute last flight out to work that they can manage in order to maximize their home time...giving them 15 minutes to get to their gate to start their trip. These guys have ulcers...and typically a bad attitude in general.

Also, as Plata said, this job inherently comes with being away from home...more so as a commuter. If someone can't be a meh guy they need to seriously consider moving to base...maybe even consider their choice of profession. This job isn't for everyone. This job isn't even for everyone's families.

TLDR. The secret to commuting is to not give a crap. If you are giving out craps, don't commute. If commuting is your only option, it's time for some soul searching.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
Little late to the party but my wife was once ok with me commuting. Once we had a kid and I was based at home briefly that went out the window. We moved away from family but in a way we now have more flexibility with all the help in our neighborhood, need to find a good one IMO. Most of us are all in the same shoes and really help each other out. Now I have a 40 min drive and don't care about sign in times, etc. We have decided we will move when/if need be. Thankfully her family lives in our JR base so plan B is to go there.

Also piece of advice @Cherokee_Cruiser quit talking openly about having DLNET access.
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I don't anymore. :( He left the regional to bigger/better things.
 
Well I got LAX out of the gate. So a commute is happening regardless lol. I will worry about it after my training is complete, but aside from high rent for acrash pad LAX should be a decent commute from PDX. Once I move to Salem, I will drive an extra hour if I'm still commiting, but I should be able to hold PDX by then (summer) which blows my mind
 
My commute is a 30 minute drive and I have nobody that cares about me. I'm typing this from my stretch of 19 days off which I can do because forever-alone-ness and a short drive allow for single days off the rest of the month.
 
learhawkerbe400 said:
Watch out delta nonrev police [emoji601][emoji599]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Nah, it's just that it's access to our entire system, far beyond TravelNet including trade secrets and personal information of employees.

I'm sure you don't want me crank calling you at 0400 or taking out a credit card in your name, do ya? :)
 
Derg said:
Nah, it's just that it's access to our entire system, far beyond TravelNet including trade secrets and personal information of employees.

I'm sure you don't want me crank calling you at 0400 or taking out a credit card in your name, do ya? :)
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If there's enough personal info on there for that to happen I'd be more worried about some ramper or f/a than him. So I'm guessing it's not a big deal. [emoji847]
 
JDean3204 said:
As the majority of us are navigating our way through our careers with families, at times we are faced with hard decisions to make in order to keep solid roots intact. I am lucky to live within an hour of both my girlfriends(pretty much wife) mother and my parents. As we are in our late 20's and have been together since we were 18/19 years old, kids often come up in our discussion. Honestly, the only reason we do not have children yet is because of me, getting out of the service and starting flight school then flying for a peanut paying first career job did not seem like a great time to have a child. I am a few weeks out from training at my first 121 carrier, which will still be peanut paying for the first year or at least until I upgrade. So for the sake of providing a decent life for a little one, I am putting kids on hold yet a few more years.

With that being said, I now live in Portland, Oregon. Our families live an hour south in Salem, Oregon. We have been floating the idea of moving back to Salem to start developing those roots. As long as I am PDX or even SEA based, living in Salem is a non issue, either an hour drive to PDX or a 3 1/2 hour drive to SEA. The cost of living is getting out of control in Portland, the rent is rising at such a fast rate we are about to pay 70% more for the same place we moved into 5 years ago... Salem is much cheaper, a better chance to buy a house without spending 300K on a "fixer upper". As I am constantly thinking years ahead of myself, I know that SEA or PDX is not a universal base such as ORD, LAX or DFW... I just have no desire to move my family to those locations as there will be no support structure for them when I am at work. If it was for a job that I would be home every night, I would consider it. Of course I would really like to fly for AS someday, but as a realist I know that you choose the first "career carrier" that calls. Plus, I would really love to have my kids growing up close to their grandparents, that would mean a lot to them, myself and my parents.

So here are the questions since I just filled you in with all of the boring details...

How much does commuting really effect your QoL?

If you are a commuter, what is the reason for the commute? Your wife/husband and kids?

Have you ever regretted not just moving to base and telling your wife/husband to suck it up?

With seniority and bidding systems, how long until you can bid trips that have at least 4 days between duty periods? Do you even go home if you have 1 or 2 days off between duty periods?

Very long and dry, I know.... But just wondering if there are others out there who sacrifice their time off in order to be with their families.
Click to expand...

As you stated, the cost of living in PDX is no joke. It's gotten way worse in the last 5 years or so. No frills 3 bedroom/2bath homes easily go for 550k in many parts of NE and SE. Even the commute from Salem can get dicey at times. 1 hour would be best case scenario. Wrong time of day and it's 1.5, 1.75+. How would the commute look jumpseating from EUG?
 
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