Envoy Military RW Transition program

Hacker15e said:
Great idea! I wish the rest of the airline industry would realize the value of the airmanship that military rotorheads bring with them to the cockpit.
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We're what you'd call, "unique."

Smart move though. There is a massive untapped source of well trained pilots (aviators).
 
Blackhawk said:
Regionals are having to get creative to fill cockpits with qualified pilots.
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That's the thing -- I don't understand why it is "creative" to fill airline cockpits with rotorheads; seems more like common sense to me, and they should have been there all along.
 
Hacker15e said:
That's the thing -- I don't understand why it is "creative" to fill airline cockpits with rotorheads; seems more like common sense to me, and they should have been there all along.
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Supply and demand. Some, such as my current employer, always liked them as they felt they got more bang for the buck. Not that we don't hire military FW types, we just know they probably won't last long. Military RW types, however, bring a good deal of aviation experience but don't have the FW time so they will be around for a while.
 
While that is a fair assessment I'd think of the return on investment, in a more general sense, I agree that mil RW aviators bring an interesting experience set to the table for the most part. Much like that guy who has years of doing single pilot night cargo hauling, or the guy with a bunch of AK bush experience. Not equating any one of those categories to one another, just that they are unique perspectives that I would imagine could be value added.
 
Hacker15e said:
That's the thing -- I don't understand why it is "creative" to fill airline cockpits with rotorheads; seems more like common sense to me, and they should have been there all along.
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Honestly, I think it's the stigma carried over from civvie rotor heads that they're scared of/incapable of operating in the ifr environment.
 
F me.... a program like this might be the reason I get out.


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Roger Roger said:
Honestly, I think it's the stigma carried over from civvie rotor heads that they're scared of/incapable of operating in the ifr environment.
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Depends on the background.

Civvie rotorhead flying an AW-139 or S-76? They're as good at IFR as any FW guy.

Other guys who have an Instrument-Helicopter, but fly a light helo that isn't IFR certified, just have to maintain their basic currency, but don't get any real world.
 
Sadly, the Feds and the DOD said that Osprey time is "powered lift" and not fixed wing. So there are a lot of V22 pilots that would have normally waltzed right into a major that are looking for regional jobs for fixed wing time.
 
Derg said:
Sadly, the Feds and the DOD said that Osprey time is "powered lift" and not fixed wing. So there are a lot of V22 pilots that would have normally waltzed right into a major that are looking for regional jobs for fixed wing time.
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It's ok though because civilian tilt rotor is gonna take off any day now....... any day...... any?... day now?


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MikeD said:
Depends on the background.

Civvie rotorhead flying an AW-139 or S-76? They're as good at IFR as any FW guy.

Other guys who have an Instrument-Helicopter, but fly a light helo that isn't IFR certified, just have to maintain their basic currency, but don't get any real world.
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I didn't say it was right, though like many stereotypes there's a grain of truth at the center of it. Go to, well, practically any rotor wing EMS crash discussion and you'll see it.
 
Roger Roger said:
I didn't say it was right, though like many stereotypes there's a grain of truth at the center of it. Go to, well, practically any rotor wing EMS crash discussion and you'll see it.
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There is indeed truth to it. I was merely providing some details to that truth.

Your post wasn't being criticized, as you were essentially correct. And sadly, there indeed are accidents that contribute to that stigma.
 
Even on the military side some RW airframes are not IFR capable and instrument training is an afterthought. My airline has had training issues with some -58 and -64 pilots.
 
Good for envoy. Good for helo pilots. It is really just a matter of getting them 250 hours of PIC Airplane with 100 hours XC, 25 hours at night, and 50 hours of AMEL. And 100 of it can be in a sim! That's a stupid easy decision.

The tough part is that the helo guy is going to exit the military making 90-110k/year so that's a pretty big haircut.
 
Flyinthrew said:
Good for envoy. Good for helo pilots. It is really just a matter of getting them 250 hours of PIC Airplane with 100 hours XC, 25 hours at night, and 50 hours of AMEL. And 100 of it can be in a sim! That's a stupid easy decision.

The tough part is that the helo guy is going to exit the military making 90-110k/year so that's a pretty big haircut.
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Depending on cost of living and benefits provided from employment it may very well be worth it. No way I could keep my house and family where we are with the mortgage I've got right now for instance. That being said what I pay in Washington is not would I would pay in say... Idaho or Penn. and in a couple years when my son is a bit older and my wife gets back to work....

The bigger thing for me would be to walk away from a pension in my 30s without having put a ton of money into a 401k to make up for it. 5-10 years from now though that's not gonna be a problem because that pension will be gone for the guys signing up soon. The military may have just inadvertently solved the airline hiring problem, because there's only so many times you can miss birthdays and anniversaries fighting to "free the atropian people," before it isn't fun anymore.


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Well, after reading through this a few times I'm trying to figure out what the big deal is aside from marketing. It seems they are saying that you use your VA benefits to get your required FW times for the R-ATP. Once you have the fixed wing times they pay for your ATP. Pretty much what most regionals do now anyway.
 
Blackhawk said:
Well, after reading through this a few times I'm trying to figure out what the big deal is aside from marketing. It seems they are saying that you use your VA benefits to get your required FW times for the R-ATP. Once you have the fixed wing times they pay for your ATP. Pretty much what most regionals do now anyway.
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Many Mil dudes don't know that.
 
Envoy will pay up to $23,000 of your training cost + the $5,000 cost of ATP/CTP + a new hire bonus of either $17,100 or $22,100 depending on what aircraft you are assigned. The ATP is earned during new hire training at no cost. No other regional has a program like this.
 
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