Ok, I'll eat the crow I deserve, or how I learned to love the Bus.
- Thread starter nimslow
- Start date
OneNineHundy
Well-Known Member
How does the 321 compare to the 320?
I agree with you on the side stick vs the yoke. So much more room! Love putting my feet up in the middle although haven't really used the stirrups.
Tray table is nice, and makes eating so much easier. I've found the managed decent profile very conservative compared to the NG. Don't really know what people are eluding to with the x wind but I think it handles them great. It's also much easier to land nicely than the NG.
It's an easy plane to fly and nice having a tiller on both sides. I also like how the roles are identical for FO and Captain when it comes to PF and PNF. Makes the job far more enjoyable in the right seat.
I often find myself in my sleep saying "Man flex 63, SRS, RWY, Autothrust Blue" and checked, checked, checked, checked.......
You really do talk that thing into flying.
I agree with you on the side stick vs the yoke. So much more room! Love putting my feet up in the middle although haven't really used the stirrups.
Tray table is nice, and makes eating so much easier. I've found the managed decent profile very conservative compared to the NG. Don't really know what people are eluding to with the x wind but I think it handles them great. It's also much easier to land nicely than the NG.
It's an easy plane to fly and nice having a tiller on both sides. I also like how the roles are identical for FO and Captain when it comes to PF and PNF. Makes the job far more enjoyable in the right seat.
I often find myself in my sleep saying "Man flex 63, SRS, RWY, Autothrust Blue" and checked, checked, checked, checked.......
You really do talk that thing into flying.
We have a lot of that around here as well. I heard all the standard stuff my last few months on the 80 "I still like to fly real airplanes", "that's stupid they way they do things on that airplane", and on and on. The training, and the way we operate the bus is very different than all the other fleets around here, so that scares people as well.
The 321 is all I've flown so far, all our sim's are 320's though. The 321 has the same wing as the 320, but it's heavier, so it's kind of a pig. I have not yet flown one of the older CFM powered 321's, but all our new ones have the larger IAE motors. I hear the CFM airplanes are really sad performers. Tail strike's are a big concern on the 321, and our guys stress that heavily in training.
We don't do the Airbus "read the whole FMA" thing anymore, but some of the older instructors were trained that way, so it sneaks in during training occasionally. We don't have identical roles as PF/PM either, and the FO's are not supposed to use the right side tiller. I've been told it's a FOQA hit if it's used, don't know if that's BS or not. We do get to touch the lights and seat belts signs now, however.
Originally, when we got the airplane, we used the Airbus factory procedures, then we got merged, and adopted our partners Airbus procedures, and some of their FM stuff, while they adopted our Boeing stuff. Lot's of things I don't do as an fo anymore under the new way of life. I can't takeoff below 1600 RVR, I can't do PRM approaches anymore, the emergency descent is a Captain maneuver now. Per our book, the captain makes all the takeoff and approach briefings, and PA's, most will offer to let us make them, I've done plenty, so I don't really care at this point.
Baronman
Well-Known Member
So you fly the TO and landing but the CA briefs it.... Talk about disconnect.
learhawkerbe400
Well-Known Member
OneNineHundy
Well-Known Member
That's all very interesting. Like I said where I work the PF runs the show. Do the planning, choose the fuel, check the tech log, talk to ground, start the engines, taxi etc. PNF always does the walkaround. Roles are completely reversible as are scan flows. I really enjoy that aspect, although obviously captain has ultimate responsibility and they will make the big calls when required. It will make the transition to the left seat that much easier. Interesting you don't have to read every FMA, I can see merits in both ways.
We are getting 320, and 321 NEO's next year, looking forward to flying them.
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Rocketman99
Frozen Guppy Manipulator
You're operating on the assumption folks listen/pay attention to briefings. May not be a valid assumption...
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
They both should have done tanker/freighter versions of jets actually designed in the last decade or two; 787 and A350 tankers would have been a much better option.
lostplanetairman
Well-Known Member
I also fly the 319/320/321 and have been typed for nearly 12 years in the series. I really enjoy it.
Just more of our ancestor worship, same reason the captain makes the prepare for takeoff PA, while he/she is trying to taxi the airplane. It's been that way long before I got here. If I had to guess, I'd say it's that way, so the captain can make sure you know how he/she want's/expects you do do the departure or approach.
Maybe...
Winner, winner chicken dinner. I tried to explain that to a captain I have flown with many times. Great guy, but he makes some really long briefings. When I told him that the fo's probably were not paying attention after the first 30 seconds or so, he seemed genuinely surprised. I really don't care if I make them on my leg or not, just like I don't care if I do PA's or not. YMMV.
Some captains brief a simple point A to B flight, as if were a mission to downtown Hanoi to hit the power plants?
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
Sounds like you're at merkin!
Remember the FMA is the way, the truth, and the life. Always know what mode you're in, be intentional, and always have a plan in hand for your next moves. If you find yourself "playing the pipe organ," it might be time to deautomate. At the end of the day with it all off, it's just a big cessna 172.
You mentioned crosswinds- they shouldn't be any different than any other jet you've flown. You know what a crosswind landing looks like- make that happen with the stick and rudder. The input of the stick might be a tad different, but it looks and flies like an airplane. Never forget that!
Speaking of deautomating- don't be afraid to turn off the AP and A/THR- 90% of my landings are without the A/THR on. Don't let those stick and rudder skills atrophy!
I tell people the 321 is almost more like the 330 in terms of the flying qualities, the speed of the flight computers and especially the way you don't want to just snap the throttles back to the climb detent without a healthy respect for your speed trend arrow at acceleration altitude.
It's almost exact of the 330 except for the crazy-assed landing characteristics because of the double-bogey (and reverse from the 757/767 I think) landing gear (back trucks… pause… forward trucks……forward gear)
Their H125 has all the cool bells, gadgets, glass and tell-on-you stuff. But at the end of the day, it's just like the old B2 in handling,
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
It sure felt like sitting in the big bus when I brought the 321 over from Iceland! I guess I'll get to find out come february.
Don't get SJS - the NEO is just another airplane. That doesn't pay you more to memorize another set of limitations and quirks. And makes you sit around for 5 minutes just trying to get the engines started and 5 more minutes sitting short of the gate waiting for cool down to shutdown. (Still doesn't pay you more because they overpad the block)
Cruise
Well-Known Member
I've been very happy with Le Bus. If I don't ever have to learn a different aircraft, that'd be just fine by me! From a pilot comfort standpoint, you just can't beat the sidestick/ tray table combo. Toss in a reasonably quiet cockpit, plenty of space and electric seats...well, there are worse ways to get from here to there.
As I've said in the past, only those without Bus experience talk trash about the Bus. Those that know, know it's a great plane.
As I've said in the past, only those without Bus experience talk trash about the Bus. Those that know, know it's a great plane.