FedEx MD11 booboo in FLL?

BobDDuck said:
Curios why you used the "female" qualifier? Was it to differentiate from another (male) FO who did the same thing a different time? Or just because?



I believe that was the part of the wing that sits over the fuel tank.



No it's not. At some airports it's pretty common to have to wait for medics to arrive, even if you've given them plenty of advanced notice. I don't know how MSP does it, but often times terminal medical (and hence, anything that happens once the plane is blocked in at the jetway) is handled by somebody other than ARFF. And some times those contractors can take a long time to get there.
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To differentiate it. Sadly, we have to for Fedex 3-holers. I have read the MD11 has pretty weird tendencies during the flare in terms of elevator/stabilizer pitch control.

But this particular case, the FO was getting a line check for a prior altitude bust out of Stansted, and she had numerous PC sim failures at both Fedex and Mesaba. I think like 5 or more.
 
MikeD said:
No, I meant "unusual" in that that's not the way it's supposed to be, especially since that's why you guys call ahead in the first place. Someone always should be waiting for you if you guys gave pre-warning. Especially if it was more than 10 mins or so warning that you give.

Each airport runs differently, depending who runs the airport....city vs an airport authority or something like that. Some airports, the ARFF dept units only handle happenings on the ramp/taxiways/runways, with a city or other dept handling terminal fire/medical. Other cities, the fire station has an ARFF side and a structural side of the station on field, with ARFF doing their thing and structural doing theirs.

Still, anytime you guys call ahead, there's little excuse for someone not to be waiting. I would want to know the reason for any delay, especially one described by Ian.
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thats a great question, we were assured they would be waiting. It ended up being ARFF pulling up. Didn't ask for a reason because the doc said patient was doing much better. Seizure and was incoherent until about the last 10 min of the flight so the doc wasn't as concerned. Had the doc not been saying they were better now it would have been quite the wtf moment
 
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Crop Duster said:
Don't they have emergency rope/chain ladders at the main exits? Or just the slide?
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As Hacker said, no. Ropes are only in the cockpit as the sole means of escape to the ground (apart from falling) out the cockpit sliding windows in the DC/MD-10 series.

The L1/R1, all there is present is the escape slide. So if it either doesn't inflate for some reason, or does inflate but is accidentally released from the door and falls to the ground, then you're at an open exit about 15+ feet above the ground.

Going out the cockpit window and down the escape rope/tape is no picnic and is very awkward. Without proper gloves, most people are generally going to get friction burns sliding down it, and will likely end up falling at some point like a sack of potatoes to the ground. Many people don't posses the upper body strength to lower themselves hand over hand. Would potentially be about the same fall distance as hanging from the L1/R1 floor and falling 10 feet to the ground.

I can't remember if the DC/MD-10 series had this, but the MD-11 series does, and that's a cockpit access hatch via a small staircase and hatch in the nose gear well. However, one would have to be of quite small stature to escape through this area. I snapped a pic of one of these on an MD-11 at SLC that we were working fam with a number of years back. Ironically, there was an impressive fire suppression system onboard too. Also pictured is the emergency exit controls for the L1/R1 doors and associated slide arm/disarm controls.

(photos by MikeD)

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There was an incident at FedEx within the last several years where an MD-11 L1 slide didn't inflate completely (apparently only one of the two bottles was activated?). This left a slide that visually looked fully inflated but wasn't.

The FO jumped out and landed right on the ramp, seriously injuring his back.

There's a pretty good video of it from one of the airport ramp cameras out there somewhere.
 
ian said:
granted our airplane wasn't on fire last night, but we had a medical and notified ops 40 min out, called them again 10 min out, and when we got the gate had to call again for the paramedics and waited another 10 min after blocking in for them to be there in MSP. Good thing we had a Dr on board and it wasn't actual life or death
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IIRC,MSP uses a private ambulance company (Allina Health) for ALS EMS response,and I don't believe they are based on the actual field (I could be wrong) so there could be a delay in response due to that. Also,I believe MSP ARFF is BLS,so they can show up and do first responder stuff but they would have to wait for the rescue to show up which has the paramedics. PHX on the other hand does have paramedics on property from the station right next to Terminal 3,and they use their own ambulances from off airport for transport.


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Troy McClure said:
Lets be even more honest...at least half the CAPTAINS flying RJs would not fit.......
I am a big guy but I have flown with bigger and I always look at that hatch (or window) and say to myself...Im goin first...!
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Like when you see a fat person sitting in the exit row window seat, and you just know by eyesight that if the person doesn't end up jammed in the exit, that it at least may be slow going ....
 
azmedic said:
IIRC,MSP uses a private ambulance company (Allina Health) for ALS EMS response,and I don't believe they are based on the actual field (I could be wrong) so there could be a delay in response due to that. Also,I believe MSP ARFF is BLS,so they can show up and do first responder stuff but they would have to wait for the rescue to show up which has the paramedics. PHX on the other hand does have paramedics on property from the station right next to Terminal 3,and they use their own ambulances from off airport for transport.


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Yes at PHX. PFD station 19 there has, in addition to all it's ARFF trucks, Engine 19 (i believe ALS) that will respond to terminal/medical calls. Additionally, station 29 on the north side of the field at 40th/Airlane, has both a structure side as well as an ARFF side. Foam 2 from station 19 is based there. And Rescue 29 from there will respond ALS to the terminals/hangars as the field ambo, from the structure side. On the structure side, there's additionally Engine 29 and Squad (heavy rescue) 29, to assist the 19 units in an aircraft emergency.

Whereas Tucson Airport Authority ARFF doesnt generally respond to the terminal, as I believe the Engine they have is BLS, and they have no Ambos. Transport is either by SWA or TFD. Raytheon, on the west side of the field, has Tucson FD (who has no jurisdiction over the airport) Engine 23 which is ALS, but it's restricted to Raytheon grounds mostly and wouldn't come off to the flight line or other side of the airport unless for routine emergencies.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Like the CRJ escape hatch. Lets be honest, half the pilots out there wouldn't fit through :D
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If someone has bigger than a 38" waist, I'm going first. The measurements on all the crj models line up as that being the point of blockage. Hope to never have to tell somone, "hey, I'm the captain, and we are evacuating, but this hatch will only prop you up like a skewer shoved up your ass in a rotisserie". We can totally say ass here. Not trying to discriminate or be ugly, but that's the math.
 
higney85 said:
If someone has bigger than a 38" waist, I'm going first. The measurements on all the crj models line up as that being the point of blockage. Hope to never have to tell somone, "hey, I'm the captain, and we are evacuating, but this hatch will only prop you up like a skewer shoved up your ass in a rotisserie". We can totally say ass here. Not trying to discriminate or be ugly, but that's the math.
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Yup. The math can't be argued. It is what it is. You're a big person, your egress options get more limited potentially.
 
higney85 said:
If someone has bigger than a 38" waist, I'm going first. The measurements on all the crj models line up as that being the point of blockage. Hope to never have to tell somone, "hey, I'm the captain, and we are evacuating, but this hatch will only prop you up like a skewer shoved up your ass in a rotisserie". We can totally say ass here. Not trying to discriminate or be ugly, but that's the math.
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Would your "book" fit?
 
Isn't there a FAA rule or something about there not being any height requirements but the ability to be able to operate all flight controls, buttons, switches? How does that not apply to emergency egress? IMO, the FAA should require a pilot demonstrate the ability to climb out of the escape hatch or cockpit window. If one can't, they aren't physically fit to carry out their full duties - which could one day include emergency evacuation through said hatch.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Isn't there a FAA rule or something about there not being any height requirements but the ability to be able to operate all flight controls, buttons, switches? How does that not apply to emergency egress? IMO, the FAA should require a pilot demonstrate the ability to climb out of the escape hatch or cockpit window. If one can't, they aren't physically fit to carry out their full duties - which could one day include emergency evacuation through said hatch.
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I've been saying this for ages. It should be part of very stringent FAA medical requirements that create a real pilot shortage and good work rules for pilots. So guys stop using the lifestyle on the road as an excuse for letting themselves go.


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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Isn't there a FAA rule or something about there not being any height requirements but the ability to be able to operate all flight controls, buttons, switches? How does that not apply to emergency egress? IMO, the FAA should require a pilot demonstrate the ability to climb out of the escape hatch or cockpit window. If one can't, they aren't physically fit to carry out their full duties - which could one day include emergency evacuation through said hatch.
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We have to do hands on (crawl through) emergency exit training every 12 months at my shop.
 
MikeD said:
Well done job. Lots of factors to help in that......location of scene, what the crew was doing at the time, and other factors. But generally for an unannounced emergency, that's indeed pretty good.

Manchester ARFF still holds the record for an unannounced emergency to beginning firefighting operations.....about 45 seconds for the 737 RTO there in 1985.
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I was told the Battalion Chief happened to be outside the bay doors and saw the crash happen.

Something else to keep in mind, a day later and it would have been one year to the day of the Dynamic Air fire also at FLL.

 
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