Garmin 430W with expired database

DE727UPS

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
Wondering what it can be used for legally. Getting ready to do some IFR training. Avionics tech friend said it's fine for "en route" with an old database. I'm not getting anything definitive from Google, or a search here, though it seems this has been talked about. Thanks in advance. It's a 430W with a 3.0 database.
 
I'm rusty on the particulars, but I believe your avionics tech friend is right, and that the source of that information is the AIM.
 
DE727UPS said:
Wondering what it can be used for legally. Getting ready to do some IFR training. Avionics tech friend said it's fine for "en route" with an old database. I'm not getting anything definitive from Google, or a search here, though it seems this has been talked about. Thanks in advance. It's a 430W with a 3.0 database.
Click to expand...

I don't understand the 3.0 data base? That sounds like a software version and has nothing to do with the data base.

The data base should be dated and it updates every month. You need to look for this.

garmintrainer.JPG


An annual subscription is available from Jeppesen (not Garmin). I think you can buy a single update but I'm not positive.

My friend bought a plane from the east coast last year and has it here in California. A year later his 430 database is still east of the Mississippi so he's missing everything, even VOR's in CA. I couldn't stand it any longer so I took his card home and flashed it from my west of the Mississippi subscription. Of course I can only download the database once so I gave him my update for that month.

Do you have a friend with a 430W?

To answer your question:
  1. You can't use an expired database for instrument approaches.
  2. You can use it for enroute assuming you verify there has been no changes that would affect your route.
Yes, they do move airports and VOR's. I was making an unplanned fuel stop in St George Utah about 7 years ago following my VFR GPS when I noticed the (current) IFR GPS was taking me to a different place. I was still about 15 miles out so it was just a lesson learned.

Untitled.png
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bp
fholbert said:
To answer your question:
  1. You can't use an expired database for instrument approaches.
  2. You can use it for enroute assuming you verify there has been no changes that would affect your route.
Click to expand...

This. You can use it for terminal and enroute if you've verified the points, but not for approaches. See the limitations section of the GPS supplement.
 
fholbert said:
Yes, they do move airports and VOR's. I was making an unplanned fuel stop in St George Utah about 8 years following my VFR GPS when I noticed the (current) IFR GPS was taking me to a different place. I was still about 15 miles out so it was just a lesson learned.
Click to expand...

A certain ACMI company almost lost a jet when they moved a VOR and no one read the notams(in spanish).
 
Thanks for the comments. The main thing is I need it to be legal to substitute for DME on VOR/DME and ILS/DME approaches with an expired database. I have a lot of reading up to do between the AIM and the flight manual. Want to get the guy through the checkride as easily and the least complicated way possible. Might be better to leave the database expired and not have to worry about GPS approaches on the check ride. My feeling is anything legal to use in the panel if fair game on a checkride. Once the checkride is passed if he wants to do GPS approaches he can pay for the updates and I will make sure he knows the box well. Honestly, about all I'm familiar with is Direct To and scrolling through the pages. Much to learn.
 
fholbert said:
Situational Awareness
You want a GPS for your check ride, It will make it so much easier. It's the ADF you'll want to be inopt.
Click to expand...
Around these parts I believe there is only one NDB approach within 150 miles. If he's going around where I think he will be it will most likely need DME at the very least.
 
Last edited:
Cessnaflyer,

You're planning on a Instrument check ride shooting non-gps approaches requiring DME using a GPS with an expired database for DME?

My guess, and it's only a guess, is your check ride will end early. The money saved on updating the database may be less than the second check ride.

If you can fly a VOR approach, you can fly a GPS approach and the GPS approach will be easier. I'm not sure what you're afraid of?

I took my Instrument check ride in 1978, long before GPS and iPads. Few flight school aircraft had a working DME. Situational awareness was so hard to maintain, the first time you knew you were close to a VOR was when the flag changed to from. I bought my current plane in 2004, it had a GNS430 when I purchased it. It is so fricking easy flying with GPS, seeing the fixes, being told by the GPS when to start a turn, knowing where you are at all times with simply a glance, I still shake my head in amazement.
 
fholbert said:
Cessnaflyer,

You're planning on a Instrument check ride shooting non-gps approaches requiring DME using a GPS with an expired database for DME?

My guess, and it's only a guess, is your check ride will end early. The money saved on updating the database may be less than the second check ride.

If you can fly a VOR approach, you can fly a GPS approach and the GPS approach will be easier. I'm not sure what you're afraid of?

I took my Instrument check ride in 1978, long before GPS and iPads. Few flight school aircraft had a working DME. Situational awareness was so hard to maintain, the first time you knew you were close to a VOR was when the flag changed to from. I bought my current plane in 2004, it had a GNS430 when I purchased it. It is so fricking easy flying with GPS, seeing the fixes, being told by the GPS when to start a turn, knowing where you are at all times with simply a glance, I still shake my head in amazement.
Click to expand...
That was a bit unnecessary because I was in a similar boat in addition had the old King RNAV receivers and KLN 90B for GPS approaches to do in a Beech Sundowner and Travel Air.

I was assuming with where he is located and the equipment onboard where they would have to go to complete the check ride without a usable DME source.
 
Cessnaflyer said:
That was a bit unnecessary because I was in a similar boat in addition had the old King RNAV receivers and KLN 90B for GPS approaches to do in a Beech Sundowner and Travel Air.

I was assuming with where he is located and the equipment onboard where they would have to go to complete the check ride without a usable DME source.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't intend to upset anyone.
 
Last edited:
fholbert said:
Cessnaflyer,

You're planning on a Instrument check ride shooting non-gps approaches requiring DME using a GPS with an expired database for DME?

My guess, and it's only a guess, is your check ride will end early. The money saved on updating the database may be less than the second check ride.
.
Click to expand...
My guess is that you are correct. The instrument PTS specifies under Aircraft and equipment required for the test that the GPS must be IFR certified and the database be current. I know one examiner that used to let it go unnoticed, but now sends applicants home with an expired database.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top