Aircraft Dispatcher and Pilot Role Infographic

When I have a challenging crappy day, and I've got to bring dispatch, airport customer service, above the wing, below the wing, passenger expectations, crew expectations, ATC and the weather together at the end of it I think, "that's what the money is for" because I have to do it again, at least domestically, in anywhere from 35 to 65 minutes.

I think: Slow is smooth, smooth is fast and if your name is on my flight plan, we're going to have that chat if it doesn't look right and I'm you're only flight, from my perspective! :)
 
Its funny you mention joint responsibility. Its amazing how few pilots respect the dispatchers authority. If I have an MEL concern and dont want to take an aircraft or want extra fuel on a weight critical flight, Ive had numerous pilots try to push me into releasing them with a radar into forecast convection or a plane without working wing anti ice into icing conditions or going to a hub with a blizzard forecast with nothing but FAR min fuel. Many take offense and imply that I should release them and trust their judgment as PIC. Often, they will ask for a manager who will then try to push you into releasing the flight. Stand your ground with a pilot and often times now you have management to convince your case to. Plus the station keeps calling wanting you to the release the flight and demanding an explanation on the delay. Maintenance will be pressuring you to accept the placard. The load planners will be pressuring you to not take the fuel. The aircraft routers will be telling you how much swapping planes will be messing up the operation. Crew scheduling will be telling you that this crew will time out soon if I dont release the flight. The hardest thing a dispatcher can do is take a stand and use his authority that nobody at an airline respects.
 
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Flagship_dxer said:
Its funny you mention joint responsibility. Its amazing how few pilots respect the dispatchers authority. If I have an MEL concern and dont want to take an aircraft or want extra fuel on a weight critical flight, Ive had numerous pilots try to push me into releasing them with a radar into forecast convection or a plane without working wing anti ice into icing conditions or going to a hub with a blizzard forecast with nothing but FAR min fuel. Many take offense and imply that I should release them and trust their judgment as PIC. Often, they will ask for a manager who will then try to push you into releasing the flight. Stand your ground with a pilot and often times now you have management to convince your case to. Plus the station keeps calling wanting you to the release the flight and demanding an explanation on the delay. Maintenance will be pressuring you to accept the placard. The load planners will be pressuring you to not take the fuel. The aircraft routers will be telling you how much swapping planes will be messing up the operation. Crew scheduling will be telling you that this crew will time out soon if I dont release the flight. The hardest thing a dispatcher can do is take a stand and use their authority that nobody at an airline respects.
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To the first bold point - I find this is an issue with captains on their way out the door on flowthrough or just going elsewhere.
Second bold point - Rookie hour? Those are the same ones whose flights end up in the news.

[or going into a hub with nothing but FAR mins].... This seems to be a point that gets brought up all across the forum / the industry. I love listening to everyone's points about it, being new to the game. It's fascinating what a year has taught me in "the comfy chair," as @Derg calls it, but you gotta realise - regionals aren't exactly known for comfort. Shrug. What's the trend? Are you planning conservatively, knowing that "by the time you see it, it's already happened?" Something I like to tell the new guys or the ones shadowing is to jumpseat everywhere. Get that experience, be it 10 to the moon, or night, or CAT 3 minima and no one moves without a FOLLOW ME car. That way you get to see how fast things happen, and how busy the cockpits can get. Who knows, maybe your bird gets an ENG 2 SENSOR FAULT amber warning and you get to watch an aborted takeoff screw up the whole operation firsthand.

Third bold point - not even gonna touch it.

Last bold point - "ARE THERE ICING CONDITIONS BETWEEN SYRACUSE AND CHICAGO?!?!??!"
 
Flagship_dxer said:
Its funny you mention joint responsibility. Its amazing how few pilots respect the dispatchers authority. If I have an MEL concern and dont want to take an aircraft or want extra fuel on a weight critical flight, Ive had numerous pilots try to push me into releasing them with a radar into forecast convection or a plane without working wing anti ice into icing conditions or going to a hub with a blizzard forecast with nothing but FAR min fuel. Many take offense and imply that I should release them and trust their judgment as PIC. Often, they will ask for a manager who will then try to push you into releasing the flight. Stand your ground with a pilot and often times now you have management to convince your case to. Plus the station keeps calling wanting you to the release the flight and demanding an explanation on the delay. Maintenance will be pressuring you to accept the placard. The load planners will be pressuring you to not take the fuel. The aircraft routers will be telling you how much swapping planes will be messing up the operation. Crew scheduling will be telling you that this crew will time out soon if I dont release the flight. The hardest thing a dispatcher can do is take a stand and use his authority that nobody at an airline respects.
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Careful with questioning that authority! Some people on the forum will say you have a hot head and a huge ego. /s


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Guess I'm doing it wrong. If I get a circuitous routing, if it's not obvious that it's due to WX, and our guys are good about putting the reason in the dispatcher notes on the flight plan, I call. There's always a reason and I've never heard a bad one.

The one time there was an issue with a flight and the DX was under pressure to release, I told the overlords, until I was happy, and that wasn't going to happen until the dispatcher was happy, nobody was going anywhere, except to get another cup of coffee.
 
Flagship_dxer said:
Its funny you mention joint responsibility. Its amazing how few pilots respect the dispatchers authority....
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respectcartman.jpg
 
Flagship_dxer said:
The over-arching issue is high workload. If your flight was the only flight then it would be easier for dispatchers to be more adventurous in the planning process. When you are explaining to a dozen or a few dozen pilots why you are taking them on a scenic de-tour, you are not able to simultaneously send out weather updates, respond to ACARS messages and answer radio/SATCOM/ARINC calls for the dozen or several dozen planes already in the air. The flight who is now in a hold pattern or having a medical or mechanic emergency cant get in touch with you because you are on your tenth call trying to convince a captain to take your scenic route. Airborne flights are more important than the guys on the ground. I dont mind telling a captain he will be late because I am too busy briefing crews who are about to divert and I dont have the time right now to properly plan his flight. A pilot with only one flight to worry about can go to war over a flight plan. It is easier for a dispatcher to plan the basic route and have the captain tell him which way he wants to go. Its far quicker and easier than spending a lot of time you dont have defending your long detour.
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I find that planning my flights around the weather and putting a remark on the paperwork for my crews AVOIDS phone calls. If I put them on a canned route that goes right through the wx, that's when my phone will ring. I'm all about phone call avoidance! I've never had a crew argue to be put on a route that will take them right through it. Lol...

Sure, workload is high and it takes longer to plan around the weather but I'm not filing anyone through an area of storms with convective activity and tops to FL600. My crews seem appreciative that I take the time to plan them around the wx. Sure, I still get crews who at some point take a direct from ATC right through the wx. A simple ACARS message advising them that their new routing has them flying right through that sigmet ahead, with a suggestion of alternate routing around is usually all it takes. Yes, it's frustrating when you've already given them a plan to avoid the wx, but still only takes a minute to send them that message. And there are those that after I've given them the info choose to stay on that direct route. Hey...at that point, that's their choice. I've advised them of the weather and given them an alternate route to ask for. But I have to say, most are appreciative for the heads up. I can't imagine the scenario you've given where captains actually want to be planned and filed right through the weather, to the point of having to convince them to take the scenic route.
 
wow the few dissenting opinions on here are especially loud... i'm sure ranting about pilots on a public forum is really going to help your cause...
I for one will welcome calls and discussions and if you want more fuel not a problem as long as you can provide a logical reason! some yall too in bed with the company. Maybe your former employers beat you during the fuel talks?
 
womanpilot73 said:
I find that planning my flights around the weather and putting a remark on the paperwork for my crews AVOIDS phone calls. If I put them on a canned route that goes right through the wx, that's when my phone will ring. I'm all about phone call avoidance! I've never had a crew argue to be put on a route that will take them right through it. Lol...

Sure, workload is high and it takes longer to plan around the weather but I'm not filing anyone through an area of storms with convective activity and tops to FL600. My crews seem appreciative that I take the time to plan them around the wx. Sure, I still get crews who at some point take a direct from ATC right through the wx. A simple ACARS message advising them that their new routing has them flying right through that sigmet ahead, with a suggestion of alternate routing around is usually all it takes. Yes, it's frustrating when you've already given them a plan to avoid the wx, but still only takes a minute to send them that message. And there are those that after I've given them the info choose to stay on that direct route. Hey...at that point, that's their choice. I've advised them of the weather and given them an alternate route to ask for. But I have to say, most are appreciative for the heads up. I can't imagine the scenario you've given where captains actually want to be planned and filed right through the weather, to the point of having to convince them to take the scenic route.
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are we talking domestic here ?
cause a lot of international stuff is permit specific, and they do NOT care about WX

maybe if its a SUPER TYPHOON !!
 
747Dispatcher said:
are we talking domestic here ? cause a lot of international stuff is permit specific, and they do NOT care about WX maybe if its a SUPER TYPHOON !!
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Haha yes... I was talking domestic. Definitely a different ball game for international flights, depending on the region.
 
Ultimately the final authority resides with the captain.

However, with pilots being (a) socially awkward and (b) not always self-aware, some will use that authority just because they have it and not specifically in the servant-leader role. I'm not going to brush off a dispatcher or call with the "this is what I want because I want it", it's more of a 'walk me through why we're doing B when A seems, from my perspective, like a more rational choice'.

And if we're working together and I have a question or a concern, that conversation is going to happen and if you're busy, I'll patiently wait until you're free! :)

I've been to the "big brown desk" at HQ with my crew, ALPA legal, my LEC reps, the chief pilot and the FAA CMO for a hearing and I can assure you that if I had a concern which I didn't address because the dispatcher was too busy or he said, "Just go", that would be to stand and read FAR Part 121.533(d) for the room.
 
Derg said:
Ultimately the final authority resides with the captain. However, with pilots being (a) socially awkward and (b) not always self-aware, some will use that authority just because they have it and not specifically in the servant-leader role. I'm not going to brush off a dispatcher or call with the "this is what I want because I want it", it's more of a 'walk me through why we're doing B when A seems, from my perspective, like a more rational choice'. And if we're working together and I have a question or a concern, that conversation is going to happen and if you're busy, I'll patiently wait until you're free! :) I've been to the "big brown desk" at HQ with my crew, ALPA legal, my LEC reps, the chief pilot and the FAA CMO for a hearing and I can assure you that if I had a concern which I didn't address because the dispatcher was too busy or he said, "Just go", that would be to stand and read FAR Part 121.533(d) for the room.
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I wish all pilots/dispatchers had this attitude. So many are on power trips, flexing their muscles every chance they get. Seems a lot of ego gets in the way of what should be a mutually agreeable relationship. It's not supposed to be a power struggle... We are on the same team after all.
 
My favorite is - when you advise the crew 200-300nm away from the thunderstorms, give them an option or two, up date the weather for them, advise them what other flights are doing,what atc is doing and they still proceed straight to the TS. Now wait - it gets better. They then get upset at their dispatcher because they had to make a 90 degree turn as a minimum and fly another 100 miles to get around it.

They have every right to be mad at me if I failed in my duties and lord knows I have eaten crow more than I want to admit. I have no problem getting my hind side chewed if I screwed up and rightfully deserve it.

Yet heaven forbid if I actually blow off steam at a crew member.
Sometimes that 2 way street can become a one way, pretty quick.
 
Anyone got some GOOD calls to share? This thread's got serious "rah rah rah" potential, but man I love those "hey thanks" messages. Today's cold front is a great example of that - PIREPs everywhere just screaming for a bad plan. Managed to fire off an ACARS to a guy working their way north advising him of forecast rough rides above FL280, and sure enough he stops the climb. 20-30 minutes goes by, and I get this:

"WEVE HAD SMOOTH AT 260
THANKS 4 THE WARNING
THEYRE ALL COMING DN
AHEAD OF US - GOOD CALL"

It's the little things. :)
 
Burrito said:
Anyone got some GOOD calls to share? This thread's got serious "rah rah rah" potential, but man I love those "hey thanks" messages. Today's cold front is a great example of that - PIREPs everywhere just screaming for a bad plan. Managed to fire off an ACARS to a guy working their way north advising him of forecast rough rides above FL280, and sure enough he stops the climb. 20-30 minutes goes by, and I get this: "WEVE HAD SMOOTH AT 260 THANKS 4 THE WARNING THEYRE ALL COMING DN AHEAD OF US - GOOD CALL" It's the little things. :)
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It is the little things... Love to see my advice/suggestions taken and have it work out for them. Love even more the appreciation by way of a simple message that says thanks. Doesn't take much but definitely makes a difference in my day. :)
 
Derg said:
Ultimately the final authority resides with the captain.

However, with pilots being (a) socially awkward and (b) not always self-aware, some will use that authority just because they have it and not specifically in the servant-leader role. I'm not going to brush off a dispatcher or call with the "this is what I want because I want it", it's more of a 'walk me through why we're doing B when A seems, from my perspective, like a more rational choice'.

And if we're working together and I have a question or a concern, that conversation is going to happen and if you're busy, I'll patiently wait until you're free! :)

I've been to the "big brown desk" at HQ with my crew, ALPA legal, my LEC reps, the chief pilot and the FAA CMO for a hearing and I can assure you that if I had a concern which I didn't address because the dispatcher was too busy or he said, "Just go", that would be to stand and read FAR Part 121.533(d) for the room.
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That's definitely the relationship that should be the standard. Like some have said, maybe as a dispatcher I missed something and needed to be aware of it.


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CRJInTheHeartOfTexas said:
wow the few dissenting opinions on here are especially loud... i'm sure ranting about pilots on a public forum is really going to help your cause...
I for one will welcome calls and discussions and if you want more fuel not a problem as long as you can provide a logical reason! some yall too in bed with the company. Maybe your former employers beat you during the fuel talks?
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And where exactly do work? .....Are you still living vicariously through your connections?
 
CS0290 said:
That's definitely the relationship that should be the standard. Like some have said, maybe as a dispatcher I missed something and needed to be aware of it.


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Alternatively I might have a really good reason why I did "B" even though "A" seems more reasonable from a little picture perspective.
 
Glad to see Eric Morris thinks the two most important people during every flight are pilots and dispatchers. If you read into that picture pilots take a backseat to the dispatcher lol. Oh well gotta get those students into Sheffield somehow.
 
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