I don't get it, maybe I'm missing something

I do wonder how airlines that are generally smaller and seemingly lack the economy of scale, fly primarily wide body O&D routes while carrying roughly the same number of seats as their US counterparts with similar types can have such lavish products yet charge fares that are directly competitive to our own and still supposedly turn a profit. Something doesn't pass the sniff test.
 
etflies said:
I do wonder how airlines that are generally smaller and seemingly lack the economy of scale, fly primarily wide body O&D routes while carrying roughly the same number of seats as their US counterparts with similar types can have such lavish products yet charge fares that are directly competitive to our own and still supposedly turn a profit. Something doesn't pass the sniff test.
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A lot of it has to do with taxes. Just because the fare is the same, doesn't mean the part the airline gets to keep is anywhere close.
 
SFLAX said:
Is this airline allowed to fly that jet to Europe or the US? Are the crews trained to European or US standards. Is the airline given money for things like fuel hedges or risk investment hedges. If any of these are true, your ticket is not what it actually costs.
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Very little is even close to what it actually costs...
 
A80TRACON said:
I'm a simple guy, and probably very naive, and will be the first one to say I have absolutely no idea what US pilots, or airlines, face when it comes to outside competition from foreign carriers that get "subsidies". However at the same time when I buy a tix on Widget, as a fairly high Medallion member, and am told at the gate to go buy my own food on an 8+ hour flight, I find that reprehensible.

As an ATL transplant, and 20 yr ATL ATC which took great pride in making Widget Widget (in whatever way I could) I'd much prefer to stick with Widget and have done so for decades. But if I can get a superior product, much like folks congregated to Toyota and the like during the auto industry downturn, I'm not flying the US carriers out of a National loyalty, just like I'm not buying a Ford just because it's made in America. **

Provide me with a comparable product (not even a superior product) and I'll "buy American" every time. Piss on my leg and tell me it's raining and I'll go where my money goes farthest.....because in the long run, it's all about me first.
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** But in many other countries - like we used to here - that is precisely what people are doing...
 
etflies said:
I do wonder how airlines that are generally smaller and seemingly lack the economy of scale, fly primarily wide body O&D routes while carrying roughly the same number of seats as their US counterparts with similar types can have such lavish products yet charge fares that are directly competitive to our own and still supposedly turn a profit. Something doesn't pass the sniff test.
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The ME3 don't fly O&D. They use a hub and spoke system. Just instead of connecting Macon, GA and Columbia, SC with Atlanta, their "spoke" is Atlanta and they use a 777 instead of a 50 seater.

Look at their route networks. They are perfectly situated geographically to basically be the world hub connecting most major cities.
 
BobDDuck said:
A lot of it has to do with taxes. Just because the fare is the same, doesn't mean the part the airline gets to keep is anywhere close.
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I don't know enough about the difference in taxes to comment. I understand what you're saying, so is the difference great enough to help explain their success?

wheelsup said:
The ME3 don't fly O&D. They use a hub and spoke system. Just instead of connecting Macon, GA and Columbia, SC with Atlanta, their "spoke" is Atlanta and they use a 777 instead of a 50 seater.

Look at their route networks. They are perfectly situated geographically to basically be the world hub connecting most major cities.
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Yep, my mistake.
 
I can tell you for fact about 10 years ago my family on a 777 from ORD to HNL got absolutely nothing in coach because by then, the "buy on board" had already sold out. ORD to HNL on a 777 is a 9 hr flight. Yet, JFK to London LHR is a 7-8 hr flight, yet you get a meal and then a snack before landing. Same plane, shorter distance, yet meals? IMO it simply boils down to what the competition is doing. Virgin Atlantic and British Airways weren't doing buy on boards from Heathrow to JFK so the US-based carriers have to match that service. But ORD-HNL is still a "domestic" route where it's okay to starve families for 10 hrs.

Just checked, and Delta's ATL-HNL on a 330 also gives just a "buy on board" for coach class on a 9-10 hr flight.
 
A80TRACON said:
Just flew Baghdad to Doha business class (a 2 hour flight) and had an amazing complete meal plus many libations, and still have a 7 hr biz class flight to TXL to come.

Wife is flying economy comfort on Widget airlines to CDG, from ATL, and was just told at the gate that no, meaning not any, food will be provided on an 8ish hour flight....but she could buy something and bring it on board.

Am I missing something? Price was almost identical withing $30 (me business class BGW-DOH-TXL) (wife econ cmfrt ATL-CDG econ to TXL) but she can't even get a basic meal on Widget/AF whereas I've been treated like a king on Qatar.

I don't get it. Maybe it's the subsidies
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Your agent was "factually inaccurate" if that's what she actually said. There is most certainly a meal service from ATL to CDG. In fact… two.

If you weren't served a meal, give me your confirmation number and I will inquire.
 
Derg said:
Your agent was "factually inaccurate" if that's what she actually said. There is most certainly a meal service from ATL to CDG. In fact… two.

If you weren't served a meal, give me your confirmation number and I will inquire.
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Info sent, thanks
 
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