Delta vs UPS TA video

ian said:
yeah....noooooooope.

Majority Rules and thankfully we have the so called 12 looking out for our actual best interests.
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Looks like you've become a Chit Chat veteran. So you don't support JM and the NC?

BTW what are OUR best interests? You know exactly what the majority Delta pilots desire? You've done scientific polling?
 
Trip7 said:
Looks like you've become a Chit Chat veteran. So you don't support JM and the NC?

BTW what are OUR best interests? You know exactly what the majority Delta pilots desire? You've done scientific polling?
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and you have access to the polling?convenient that the current division is pretty close to 65/35. The reps have access to the polling and if a majority are on one side I'd say it's pretty safe to assume they are representing their constituents. I support the union until they deliver a substandard TA. The NC on the other hand based on what ive heard not so much. Based on my views and everyone I have flown with the 12 represent a vast majority of the pilots I have flown with or interacted with. My hope is that with the current AIPs it doesn't make it out of the MEC. But I am only 1 of 13,500 opinions. I'm not part of the DPA crowd but I do value work rules and QOL over pay rates.
 
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I would back off from calling it the strong 12/ weak 7 or whatever name you can come up with depending on your political motivations. 12/7 is actually quite blurry. There are a few hardliners among them, but most on either side are quite reasonable with reasonable expectations.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
They really get mad over there when you point out that there are only 3100 active DPA cards.
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I'm sorry please point me to anywhere where I have said DPA is the answer? I think this MEC can get us the right deal we just need to get rid of this supposed need to have a deal right now. It takes as long as it takes. Myself and many others I know will happily work under c2012 until we get the right deal.
 
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PeanuckleCRJ said:
I would back off from calling it the strong 12/ weak 7 or whatever name you can come up with depending on your political motivations. 12/7 is actually quite blurry. There are a few hardliners among them, but most on either side are quite reasonable with reasonable expectations.
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Also please point me to where I've used those terms? Im pretty sure I've made it a point to only say the 12.
 
Ok, I promised @Derg that I'd keep this stuff off JC because there are plenty of other venues....however, I will say this:

If someone says they know what the polling or direction to the NC is, they don't. That information is tightly controlled for a reason and it's why polling review/direction is always done in closed/executive session.

If someone tells you they do, ask for the source. Whoever that "source"'is is doing the pilot group a disservice.

Polling comes down to numbers in a grid. Not hard to figure out which side of the line something is if you maintain an objective focus.

That's it from me. Feel free to PM you want mano y mano.

Richman
 
ian said:
Disagree. Everything in my post was the latest proposal from the company. The AIPs are staying. That was said at the C44 meeting and it's plastered on the DALPA site. As for the PS, that was still being demanded by the company and told to us directly by DALPA in NN 16-12. The only thing in limbo there is the % and the latest from them was 16.5/3/3/3...also in NN 16-12



See above, i'm giving info that's "better" than NN 16-12, so most of the variables are pretty set.
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If thats the case then we probably shouldn't be having these 'is this good enough for you' discussions on the internet.
 
Richman said:
Ok, I promised @Derg that I'd keep this stuff off JC because there are plenty of other venues....however, I will say this:

If someone says they know what the polling or direction to the NC is, they don't. That information is tightly controlled for a reason and it's why polling review/direction is always done in closed/executive session.

If someone tells you they do, ask for the source. Whoever that "source"'is is doing the pilot group a disservice.

Polling comes down to numbers in a grid. Not hard to figure out which side of the line something is if you maintain an objective focus.

That's it from me. Feel free to PM you want mano y mano.

Richman
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Beat me to it.
 
ian said:
I'm sorry please point me to anywhere where I have said DPA is the answer? I think this MEC can get us the right deal we just need to get rid of this supposed need to have a deal right now. It takes as long as it takes. Myself and many others I know will happily work under c2012 until we get the right deal.
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That was a comment about chit chat, not you!
 
ian said:
and you have access to the polling?convenient that the current division is pretty close to 65/35. The reps have access to the polling and if a majority are on one side I'd say it's pretty safe to assume they are representing their constituents. I support the union until they deliver a substandard TA. The NC on the other hand based on what ive heard not so much. Based on my views and everyone I have flown with the 12 represent a vast majority of the pilots I have flown with or interacted with. My hope is that with the current AIPs it doesn't make it out of the MEC. But I am only 1 of 13,500 opinions. I'm not part of the DPA crowd but I do value work rules and QOL over pay rates.
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Nope, I don't have access to the polling and JM has stated he will never release the polling information. High level stuff.

Since the AIPs are pretty much set in stone moving forward IMO it's safe to openingly discuss. You and many others have stated you want a change to the AIPs, meaning you have a no-go issue that no pay raise in the world can change.

For me, there is nothing in the AIPs that is an automatic no. The worst concession is the loss of voluntary verification but no loss of total sick leave hours in a sick leave program that is without a doubt industry leading.

Is potentially having to go grab a sick note for a head cold after a series of or one big unfortunate event (and 50 hrs plus sick used in each of previous two years) annoying? Yes. Is it worth an automatic NO without seeing the end product? IMO, absolutely not.
 
Trip7 said:
Nope, I don't have access to the polling and JM has stated he will never release the polling information. High level stuff.

Since the AIPs are pretty much set in stone moving forward IMO it's safe to openingly discuss. You and many others have stated you want a change to the AIPs, meaning you have a no-go issue that no pay raise in the world can change.

For me, there is nothing in the AIPs that is an automatic no. The worst concession is the loss of voluntary verification but no loss of total sick leave hours in a sick leave program that is without a doubt industry leading.

Is potentially having to go grab a sick note for a head cold after a series of or one big unfortunate event (and 50 hrs plus sick used in each of previous two years) annoying? Yes. Is it worth an automatic NO without seeing the end product? IMO, absolutely not.
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to each his own. Southwest has industry leading sick leave and fatigue rules.
 
Trip7 said:
SWA has up to 270 hours of sick leave benefit at full pay every year? News to me
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100% unverified sick leave at full pay. Pay no questions asked for a fatigue call or refusal to extend....but you already knew that.

I'd be in agreement with you and at least call ours industry standard if it reset on DOH. I'd even call it industry leading with DOH and voluntary verification.
 
Trip7 said:
SWA has up to 270 hours of sick leave benefit at full pay every year? News to me
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Forgive my ignorance, but is 270 hours of sick time a lot for pilots? I work the ramp for SWA and have at least double that amount in my sick bank. A 270 hour or less cap is rediculous.
 
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