amorris311
Well-Known Member
So I take it you're ready for Gavin?
United — Dropping Regionals in Favor of Mainlines, May Lose Two Hubs
- Thread starter RDoug
- Start date
A Life Aloft
Well-Known Member
Frick, I am ready just to ignore every GD candidate there is and continue to use our funds, our time and motivate others to use theirs to find solutions to help people and animals on whatever scale we can afford to and hope that more people will do the same, inspire other people and that it keeps building and gaining momentum. Screw the government. I am so over the continued b.s. of all politicians who only give a crap about them selves and their careers. Damn near none of them have any morals, values or courage left, they all lie and all they care about is themselves. We the people and for and by the people disappeared decades ago. The people have to do for themselves and for others in need. Period. Instead of wanting governmental intervention, you'll be far better off if the government just stays the hell outta the way.
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Lawman
Well-Known Member
At the cost of hundreds of billions in federal grants and local tax revenue.
As has been said repeatedly in this thread, there are small niche markets for high speed rail like the NE urbanized metro areas around DC and NYC. Outside that you literally have to force incentivize it to even make people get on trains (high road tolls, etc) much less turn a profit operating it.
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FloridaLarry
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure Trump sold that Mansion.
The Trump Organization, LLC still owns Mar-a-Lago. The estate was built [1924-27] by heiress Marjorie Merriwether Post (Post Cereals, General Foods, later married to E.F. Hutton [#2 of 4] ). A modest little pied-a-terre of 126 rooms, 110,000 sq ft. The Donald bought it for $10 Mil in 1985, re-modeled it to include 58 bedrooms, 33 bathrooms, a 29-foot (8.8 m)-long pietra dura marble top dining table, 12 fireplaces, and three bomb shelters. One helluva fixer-upper! More additions since, and now also home to the Mar-a-Lago Club. Gross Revenues from the mouldy ol' pile last year: $27.9M. Hey, he's in the real estate biz.
He has a long history of suing to keep aircraft noise from bothering Mar-a-Lago coming & going from PBI. First suit settled (we'll try new patterns), Second dismissed, third had 4 of 6 claims thrown out but last two wrapped up in legal wrangling likely to continue past the Presidential Election. Among other claims: Officials pressuring the FAA to route aircraft over his place just to be malicious.
Vote early, vote often, or it'll become the southern White House, with more remodeling at taxpayer expense, and probably be sprayed a modest White.
IndianaPilot
Well-Known Member
If this is true, what would be the entry level for the young guys or career changers like myself ? You have my attention Doug lol with that one.......im working 3 jobs to train out of pocket, retire from my current job in 2023.....being 44 at that time pretty much planned on a regional career....so yea, yikes. Assuming regionals are either largely reduced or non-existent....what options then for entry level ?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
You mean like "Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Ellsworth Air Force Base. The local time is 8:42. We should be arriving at base operations as soon as we clear the Security Police vehicles, and we're a tad unexpected, so we'll have to wait momentarily in the dearm area since B-1 bombers are currently occupying our designated parking spot. Your baggage should be arriving in Hangar B, where you will need to temporarily stand by, while buses arrive to take you to your actual destination of Rapid City."
To be fair, maybe the pilots didn't want to fly into a KRAP airport
To be fair, maybe the pilots didn't want to fly into a KRAP airport
Never been in to Rapid City, is it less than stellar?
Or is it just the ID, like overweight people who don't like to fly into KFAT?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Never been in to Rapid City, is it less than stellar?
Or is it just the ID, like overweight people who don't like to fly into KFAT?
Just having fun with IDs. Like, did you know LUV flies into KLIT?
Hiboglossi
The Most Depressing Person
Never been in to Rapid City, is it less than stellar?
Or is it just the ID, like overweight people who don't like to fly into KFAT?
I stopped in KRAP once. It smelled about as bad as you'd expect.
In all seriousness, it was fine but the FBO had T-shirts and mugs for sale that said "KRAP. Yes, that's really our identifier".
FloridaLarry
Well-Known Member
One could, but the ground travel inconvenience factor (distance, plus traffic, plus delays) between either JFK or LGA and PHL pretty much makes them non-duplicatory. There is enough traffic at each to support their separate existence. Combining them would lead to more delays, more slot assignment issues, etc.
If the same carrier hubbed in EWR and PHL then the case would be stronger. But I'm not holding my breath for UA to take over AA, or vice versa.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Let's not forget that to get the rail network we DO have, the government GAVE the land to the railroads.
That's right. GAVE. 150 years ago, there wasn't anyone around, and what land you didn't get granted you bought on cents for the acre.
What's the difference between now and then? People. Lots of them. 300 million plus.
This isn't the agrarian Podunk it used to be.
On a side note, when railroads abandon their land claims, funny stuff happens to the easements they had through private property. Railroads had easements through private property sometimes dating back over a century. Many railroads laid communications cable to support their operations along their tracks. When they abandon the lines, the RR's claims go poof. The problem is when the RR has leased or sold the communications lines to another party (often telecoms), because the land use was often tied to the use for railroad transportation. Now the new owner of the communications lines get a BIG bill from the land owner for an easement for the line. Don't want to pay? Say hello to Mr. Backhoe.
That aside, as a native Floridian, I wait in comic glee for the new train system, because hilarity will ensue.
When the Tri-Rail first opened (connecting Dade, Broward and PB Counties), it did so on FEC tracks, because CSX, the railroad that had track where, oh, I dunno, happened to actually be where people wanted to go (downtown, and along the US1 corridor), didn't want anything to do with it.
So this whole infrastructure (stations, parking, etc) had to be built up around the FEC tracks...and it still didn't get you to where you wanted to go. And it was single tracked. And FEC trains had priority over Tri-Rail trains...just what you want for time sensitive commuter trains. It took YEARS and a boat load of cash (and double tracking) to un-fuxxor that situation.
And now they're moving it back to the CSX tracks. Single tracked. Well done future planners of America!
My point is you cannot underestimate the land costs. In an urban environment, it is simply un-economical. It is a completely different situation from 100 years ago when the urban rail lines were dropped in the US and Europe.
Richman
That's right. GAVE. 150 years ago, there wasn't anyone around, and what land you didn't get granted you bought on cents for the acre.
What's the difference between now and then? People. Lots of them. 300 million plus.
This isn't the agrarian Podunk it used to be.
On a side note, when railroads abandon their land claims, funny stuff happens to the easements they had through private property. Railroads had easements through private property sometimes dating back over a century. Many railroads laid communications cable to support their operations along their tracks. When they abandon the lines, the RR's claims go poof. The problem is when the RR has leased or sold the communications lines to another party (often telecoms), because the land use was often tied to the use for railroad transportation. Now the new owner of the communications lines get a BIG bill from the land owner for an easement for the line. Don't want to pay? Say hello to Mr. Backhoe.
That aside, as a native Floridian, I wait in comic glee for the new train system, because hilarity will ensue.
When the Tri-Rail first opened (connecting Dade, Broward and PB Counties), it did so on FEC tracks, because CSX, the railroad that had track where, oh, I dunno, happened to actually be where people wanted to go (downtown, and along the US1 corridor), didn't want anything to do with it.
So this whole infrastructure (stations, parking, etc) had to be built up around the FEC tracks...and it still didn't get you to where you wanted to go. And it was single tracked. And FEC trains had priority over Tri-Rail trains...just what you want for time sensitive commuter trains. It took YEARS and a boat load of cash (and double tracking) to un-fuxxor that situation.
And now they're moving it back to the CSX tracks. Single tracked. Well done future planners of America!
My point is you cannot underestimate the land costs. In an urban environment, it is simply un-economical. It is a completely different situation from 100 years ago when the urban rail lines were dropped in the US and Europe.
Richman
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
What ground travel distance? I was saying eliminating either NYC or PHL as a base.
learhawkerbe400
Well-Known Member
I think AA management has said both will stay because NYC is mostly O and D traffic while PHL is mainly a connecting hub. But I don't pay much attention.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
NYC-LHR was a huge O&D market that connected the world's financial centers but with Brexit it may change the dynamic a bit. Ideally I think AA would like to keep JFK as a hub but they don't have the gate space for all the feeder flights like Philly does.
I did hear some rumors that on the mainline side of things Philly might be downsizing a bit.
I did hear some rumors that on the mainline side of things Philly might be downsizing a bit.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
All I will say is in recent mergers, never have ALL hubs stayed open. To do so is not realizing full synergies of the merger. Flights are combined, common grounds met, differences eliminated, and overlap killed. With proximity, bases get closed too. MEM was gone for NWA and ATL of course stayed. With AWA, LAS was gone and PHX became more of the fortress. With United, CLE was basically stamped out while growing the others. At the combined AA/US, you can bet some base will go.
learhawkerbe400
Well-Known Member
Yea I get that. Just saying what has been told to employees. I don't really care either way.
Probably PHX.
FloridaLarry
Well-Known Member
I was assuming that you expected a preponderance of the origination / destination traffic to shift to the new hub. I expect that those distances would kill a lot of it for the newly-single-hub carrier., and PAX would just use another carrier at the closest airport to them. Brand loyalty, schmoyalty.
You're right - connecting traffic shouldn't be affected. Except by the extra traffic at the surviving hub, since all of these hubs are running at or close to max capacity now. They could try larger aircraft, but that tends to lead to fewer daily flights and less-convenient departures.
You can shrink duplication, but if you shrink capacity below need, it will affect the bottom line sooner rather than later.
IMHO
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
Ah the stories I could tell about this stuff. My better half works in the real estate side of CSX. I know more about the railroads than I ever imagined I would.