Magenta Line

Maximilian_Jenius

Maximilian_Jenius

Super User
So I've been traveling the valley lately, looking for the right fit for a new flight school/instructor. There is a pretty good mix of schools here in Phoenix. There are several schools here in the valley with older planes, and a few with brand spanking new planes with Garmin 1000.

I got my PPL, back in 2001 flying with the six pack. I'm VERY comfortable flying the six pack. I want to have very strong instrument skills, as a pilot. Having a foundation already flying the six pack, if I should go to the G1000, will my skills flying a six pack retard?

I don't know if it is those that have never flown a six pack during primary training, that have the most problems, when the fancy stuff stops working. Or if it the opposite individuals like me.

But checking the spiffy new planes out at Glendale, et all. I kind of wasn't too impressed with the magenta line, coming from flying the six pack. It kind of did EVERYTHING for you, with a click of a button. I like the pretty displays. But was overstimulated, at the thought of having to figure all the stuff out. But also kind of bored at the thought of putting the plane on autopilot, and also my brain and following the magenta line.

One flight school I went to said that, it was best to learn the G1000 now, because it's the future, and what pilots deal with at the airlines.

Anyway, I'm rambling, after being up for the past 18 hours. So back to the original question. If one has a solid background flying the six pack. Will flying the G1000 coupled with the GFC700, make you a weak instrument pilot? Or a better pilot, as one flight instructor told me. Or will it mess up your proficiency/scan on the six pack?
 
It is easy going from 6 pack to glass but harder going from glass back to a 6 pack. Neither will make you a weak/strong instrument pilot, it just depends on your training in that aircraft and how much you practice. No one can argue that glass gives much better situational awareness, which is major key when flying IFR. But like anything, glass is only as good as the person using it.

Funny that flight school would tell its best to learn on the G1000 because that is what pilots at the airlines use. I've flown for 3 different airlines, and have yet to fly a full glass cockpit aircraft.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Anyway, I'm rambling, after being up for the past 18 hours. So back to the original question. If one has a solid background flying the six pack. Will flying the G1000 coupled with the GFC700, make you a weak instrument pilot? Or a better pilot, as one flight instructor told me. Or will it mess up your proficiency/scan on the six pack?
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It will make zero difference. Flying enough to maintain proficiency does. Good training does. If you are already instrument current, picking up the G1000 is fairly easy, especially if you are used to other Garmin GPS units, which are pretty common.

Don't get me wrong, I love the G1000. Having an autopilot is great. 90% of the time I am flying with neither.
 
At this point everyone should really know how to fly a glass cockpit. The G1000 does a lot but it is not simple to use if you want to get the most out of it.
 
Unless you are learning instruments in a plane that doesn't have some form of IFR GPS (rare these days even at most mom and pop schools let alone the pilot mills) nothing is different about the information you will get other than how it's displayed. The underlying principals of an instrument scan and the ability to interpret and analyze the information is the same in a G1000 as it is in an old 6-pack, it's just how it gets displayed. Outside of RMI's and the occasional autopilot, there's nothing in a G1000 equipped plane that you won't find in most any 6-pack plane used for IFR training. I've transitioned pilots both from 6-pack to G1000 and also from G1000 to 6-pack. The ability of the pilot to transition has little to do with the technology and more about the pilot. I've seen G1000 trained pilots switch seamlessly to 6-pack gauges. I've also watched 6-pack pilots get so far behind the plane flying a C172 with a G1000 that I had to take over because they couldn't do basic instrument maneuvers.

Bottom line, neither the 6-pack nor the G1000 will make you a better IFR pilot. But, then again, choosing one over the other won't make you a worse IFR pilot either. Choose whichever one you want, learn it, practice it, become proficient at it.
 
cmhumphr said:
Funny that flight school would tell its best to learn on the G1000 because that is what pilots at the airlines use. I've flown for 3 different airlines, and have yet to fly a full glass cockpit aircraft.
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What airliner in common use today, other than the 1900,does not have at least an ehsi, an autopilot and an FMS?
 
n156499000 said:
Unless you are learning instruments in a plane that doesn't have some form of IFR GPS (rare these days even at most mom and pop schools let alone the pilot mills) nothing is different about the information you will get other than how it's displayed. The underlying principals of an instrument scan and the ability to interpret and analyze the information is the same in a G1000 as it is in an old 6-pack, it's just how it gets displayed. Outside of RMI's and the occasional autopilot, there's nothing in a G1000 equipped plane that you won't find in most any 6-pack plane used for IFR training. I've transitioned pilots both from 6-pack to G1000 and also from G1000 to 6-pack. The ability of the pilot to transition has little to do with the technology and more about the pilot. I've seen G1000 trained pilots switch seamlessly to 6-pack gauges. I've also watched 6-pack pilots get so far behind the plane flying a C172 with a G1000 that I had to take over because they couldn't do basic instrument maneuvers.

Bottom line, neither the 6-pack nor the G1000 will make you a better IFR pilot. But, then again, choosing one over the other won't make you a worse IFR pilot either. Choose whichever one you want, learn it, practice it, become proficient at it.
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Training for my IFR rating, which is why I posed the question.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Will flying the G1000 coupled with the GFC700, make you a weak instrument pilot? Or a better pilot, as one flight instructor told me. Or will it mess up your proficiency/scan on the six pack?
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No.

and.

It may take a few more minutes and seconds to rebuild the eye muscle memory of whatever six pack scanning technique you were using, but otherwise - no.
 
surreal1221 said:
No.

and.

It may take a few more minutes and seconds to rebuild the eye muscle memory of whatever six pack scanning technique you were using, but otherwise - no.
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So why all the talk and flap from a few years ago about this current generation of pilots, that have only ever trained in the fancy glass cockpits? That supposedly can't fly themselves out of a wet paper bag, if all the magic is turned off. Or it goes out on it's own, and lose all situational awareness, and need a xanax.
 
Old Pete said:
What airliner in common use today, other than the 1900,does not have at least an ehsi, an autopilot and an FMS?
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I hear plenty on approach around here that don't have GPS - no shortage of slant alpha's out there. They probably have an HSI, but no magenta line...
 
If you are properly trained on attitude instrument flying and having proper situation awareness (the fundamentals) it makes no difference. The problem is that with some of the magic it's easier for a weak instructor to sneak a weak student through.
 
These days six packs in the airlines are gone. I heard of some guys from Mesaba and Pinnacle that went to NWA assigned the DC9 had struggled in the transition from glass to 6-pack Diesel 9. But nowadays it's all glass panels. I think if someone is starting out flying today, it won't do harm to learn in a glass (eg, G1000). I can't imagine a situation in which they find themselves in a 6-pack airplane.

That been said, it's absolutely critical of course they learn control if the glass fails, because then they have a 3-pack gauge to keep control of the plane.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
But nowadays it's all glass panels. I think if someone is starting out flying today, it won't do harm to learn in a glass (eg, G1000). I can't imagine a situation in which they find themselves in a 6-pack airplane.
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Except the 1300 or so hours they will be flying before ever getting to an airline. There's a good chance much of that will not be with glass panels...
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Training for my IFR rating, which is why I posed the question.
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Kinda rambled in my reply but my point is, there's no big difference. Pick one, learn it, practice it, and be proficient. The skills needed to fly IFR on a 6-pack are no different than the skills needed to fly IFR on a G1000. Choosing to learn in one or the other won't make you a stronger or weaker IFR pilot. Knowing how the systems work, understanding how the different nav aids and navigation systems function, being able to build in your mind a 4 dimensional image of your flight, maintaining a good scan of your instruments and being able to correctly determine what they are telling you and using that information properly, those are the things that make good instrument pilots, not whether they learned on a 6-pack with steam gauges or G1000.

More important that what kind of instruments are in the plane, find a flight instructor who is willing to teach you underlying theory and operations, not just one who will only show you how to load the approach and follow the line.
 
I'm getting my PPL at a school in the valley that has both six pack 172s and one with a G1000. I prefer the G1000, but I didn't find the six pack difficult to learn. Admittedly, I was learning both at roughly the same time so I hadn't spent a lot of time with either and had to transition to the other.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
These days six packs in the airlines are gone. I heard of some guys from Mesaba and Pinnacle that went to NWA assigned the DC9 had struggled in the transition from glass to 6-pack Diesel 9. But nowadays it's all glass panels. I think if someone is starting out flying today, it won't do harm to learn in a glass (eg, G1000). I can't imagine a situation in which they find themselves in a 6-pack airplane.

That been said, it's absolutely critical of course they learn control if the glass fails, because then they have a 3-pack gauge to keep control of the plane.
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Um...


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drunkenbeagle said:
Except the 1300 or so hours they will be flying before ever getting to an airline. There's a good chance much of that will not be with glass panels...
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True, but just follow these online CFI ads. They are all offering large bonuses and quite a few flight schools are glass-only now. For CFI and regional jobs, it's a pilot market.
 
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