Three Dead in Houston Cirrus Crash

MFT1Air said:
I was running that possibility in my head as well with fuel burn/route distance/time in the air/possible weight/winds aloft and how much fuel she potentially had on board. They were 3+ hours in the air with three souls on board. Wonder how her fuel burn played into her thought process as well.
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Not to mention, historically, Cirri have a tendency to end up a burning mass when they crash, which leads me to think they were somewhat low on fuel
 
I began speculating about fuel too, however slowing the video down and going frame by frame you can see the wing separate and what appears to be a fluid splashes across the windshield of the car. Not sure if I'm seeing it right, but fuel is what it appears to be.
As always, of course we really won't know that until a preliminary comes out. Very sad to hear the audio - the local controller did just about all he could save flying the plane for her. He must be feeling pretty bad too seeing it all unfold, My heart goes out to him and obviously the victims and their families.
She was clearly way in over her head and most likely was embarrassed that she was having trouble, yet didn't want to come out and admit it. Pretty tough audience listening in which probably exacerbated the situation in her mind.

Very sad accident

RIP

Bp244
 
AAPalmTree said:
Are we talking about the need to declare an emergency to successfully land in this situation?
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You need a reason to declare, and in this instance a reason isn't apparent. We know little: She was confused, sometimes unable to line up for the assigned runway, and had failed to land in three previous attempts. At some point I'd think, "This isn't working - time to step back and reassess," and ask for vectors away from KHOU.
 
tomokc said:
You need a reason to declare, and in this instance a reason isn't apparent. We know little: She was confused, sometimes unable to line up for the assigned runway, and had failed to land in three previous attempts. At some point I'd think, "This isn't working - time to step back and reassess," and ask for vectors away from KHOU.
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Agreed. "Houston, I'm going to need vectors to join a 4 mile final runway 35." A lot of links joined up for this crash to happen. This accident makes me mad at the pilot for piss poor ADM. In the same respect, I feel bad for her because we've all been there when we were new.
 
Baronpilot244 said:
I began speculating about fuel too, however slowing the video down and going frame by frame you can see the wing separate and what appears to be a fluid splashes across the windshield of the car. Not sure if I'm seeing it right, but fuel is what it appears to be.
As always, of course we really won't know that until a preliminary comes out. Very sad to hear the audio - the local controller did just about all he could save flying the plane for her. He must be feeling pretty bad too seeing it all unfold, My heart goes out to him and obviously the victims and their families.
She was clearly way in over her head and most likely was embarrassed that she was having trouble, yet didn't want to come out and admit it. Pretty tough audience listening in which probably exacerbated the situation in her mind.

Very sad accident

RIP

Bp244
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Yes it does look like fuel spills out of the wing.
 
uncreative said:
I've never flown a Cirrus but I've read that the spring loaded sidestick can inhibit the pilot's perception of how much force she is applying to the control surfaces. Can anyone who has flown a Cirrus speak to that? Is it a legitimate criticism? As a new pilot I had one instance that I'll never forget where I got slow in the pattern but there was so much feedback from the plane in terms of control pressure required and lack of responsiveness that it instantly brought my attention back where it belonged and I un-f'd myself.
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Having flown the cirrus for over a hundred or so hours, I've never enjoyed the transition from the archer and its feedback characteristics to the spring loaded sidestick on the cirrus. It is very true between the electric trim and the spring loads, it can be hard to "feel" what the airplane is doing sometimes.
 
Itchy said:
There is a LOT of blame to go around here, Whomever signed this pilot off, ATC, the pilot, etc.
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I don't agree.

When you are a licensed pilot in command of an airplane, you alone are responsible for its safe operation. It doesn't matter who is saying what on your headset, you have to manage that without killing yourself and others in perfect daytime VMC.

Some people get it right away; some learn it, and some never do get it. As Acrofox stated, if someone can't make good decisions on the ground, they will never be able to in the air. However, for all we know she was a perfect student with a great CFI.

For what it is worth to those speculating about fuel - the KOCO article quoted a firefighter as saying there was 'no fuel spill.'
 
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AAPalmTree said:
Agreed. "Houston, I'm going to need vectors to join a 4 mile final runway 35." A lot of links joined up for this crash to happen. This accident makes me mad at the pilot for piss poor ADM. In the same respect, I feel bad for her because we've all been there when we were new.
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I've got about 8500hrs under my belt now, and I'm still sometimes "there". It's just that now, I tend to know when I'm going "there" and know how to get out of "there" safely (usually by avoiding getting "there" in the first place). Probably the biggest difference between me as a new pilot and me as an "experienced" pilot is my level of humility about myself. Truth be told, I was probably a better "stick" at 500 hrs than I am now. But I'm a better pilot now. At the end of the day, flying is easy... judgement is hard... for lots of reasons that aren't particularly amenable to fitting into textbook descriptions. Human (and aviation) progress would be so much more rapid and efficient if we could learn from the experience of others, but that is seldom how experience is gained.

Given the gravity of this situation, I should not inject levity... and I don't want to wade into the whole "declare v don't declare debate", but it would have been a particularly endearing moment to have heard this pilot utter the clause "Houston, we have a problem."
 
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DeltaAlphaNovember said:
Problem with some Cirrus owners is that they think because they have a parachute that they can just pull it whenever to get themselves out of a situation they should have never been in. The 'chute has certain parameters that have to be met before pulling it.
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I think the Cirrus owner psyche is deeper than that. These are people who don't fail in life. Admitting failure while flying and getting out of a situation is literally not something they are mentally prepared for. Humility doesn't magically appear on a tight base turn when the knots are low.
 
hook_dupin said:
I think the Cirrus owner psyche is deeper than that. These are people who don't fail in life. Admitting failure while flying and getting out of a situation is literally not something they are mentally prepared for. Humility doesn't magically appear on a tight base turn when the knots are low.
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Sounds like pilots in general!
 
hook_dupin said:
I think the Cirrus owner psyche is deeper than that. These are people who don't [like to be perceived to] fail in life. Admitting failure while flying and getting out of a situation is literally not something they are mentally prepared for. Humility doesn't magically appear on a tight base turn when the knots are low.
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FTFY.
Think about this psychological dynamic on a broader level... vote appropriately! :)
 
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Acrofox said:
This is true, and I did speak too harshly in my initial statement... but it sure is frustrating watching another stall/spin accident.

-Fox
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I totally agree. Stall/spin is completely avoidable, and as a CFI I get upset every time I hear about one. This one seems worse becasue we have video to show us how violent and spin is when the airplane hits the ground.
 
I have less than 10 hours in Cirrus aircraft but over 17000 hours overall. I can tell you the Cirrus aircraft is a hot little number in which I found to be a very unforgiving aircraft if you miss handle it. In many ways it handles much like some jet and turboprop aircraft I have flown in which you have to fly these aircraft the entire time you leave the ground to a smooth landing. This is not an aircraft for a sloppy pilot or a pilot who flies very little! It is very easy to strike the prop or tail upon landing if you don't maintain a certain speed to avoid the oscillation problems on landing. I use to work for the engine manufacturer for a time and didn't like the way Cirrus marketed the aircraft for any pilot. This aircraft is for skilled pilots, not pilots looking to deploy the parachute or blue altitude hold button when in trouble. Someone mention doctor killer, I would say its the perfect machine for a person with a lot of money and no flying skills.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
Looks like her PPL was barely two years old and that was all she had. You can imagine how many hours she had. She had no business flying into that airspace with those qualifications.
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That's a horrible assumption to blanket all pilots with. She was signed off and legally had every qualification to fly in that airspace. She flew with an instructor, and DPE who saw that she was perfectly capable. Unfortunately, on this day she was probably feeling pressured, overwhelmed and wasn't able to execute a landing that she had done 100s of times before.

With that being said, I flew into a Class B airport multiple times in an airplane I had never been in before 1 month after obtaining my PPL with no problems. Blanket statements like that are not accurate.

Also don't forget, this could happen to any pilot on this board. Alls it takes is some extra pressure combined with a lack of sleep or food, have to pee, other worries on your mind, or just a bad day and you could find yourself in this same situation in what others have described as a very unforgiving airplane.
 
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kryan11 said:
That's a horrible assumption to blanket all pilots with. She was signed off and legally had every qualification to fly in that airspace. She flew with an instructor, and DPE who saw that she was perfectly capable. Unfortunately, on this day she was probably feeling pressured, overwhelmed and wasn't able to execute a landing that she had done 100s of times before.

With that being said, I flew into a Class B airport multiple times in an airplane I had never been in before 1 month after obtaining my PPL with no problems. Blanket statements like that are not accurate.

Also don't forget, this could happen to any pilot on this board. Alls it takes is some extra pressure combined with a lack of sleep or food, have to pee, other worries on your mind, or just a bad day and you could find yourself in this same situation in what others have described as a very unforgiving airplane.
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I mean, seriously here, this; the private certificate entitles you to do a lot.
 
kryan11 said:
That's a horrible assumption to blanket all pilots with. She was signed off and legally had every qualification to fly in that airspace. She flew with an instructor, and DPE who saw that she was perfectly capable. Unfortunately, on this day she was probably feeling pressured, overwhelmed and wasn't able to execute a landing that she had done 100s of times before.

With that being said, I flew into a Class B airport multiple times in an airplane I had never been in before 1 month after obtaining my PPL with no problems. Blanket statements like that are not accurate.

Also don't forget, this could happen to any pilot on this board. Alls it takes is some extra pressure combined with a lack of sleep or food, have to pee, other worries on your mind, or just a bad day and you could find yourself in this same situation in what others have described as a very unforgiving airplane.
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Yup. It's not like an ATP is required to fly into Houston's airspace.

Of course that doesn't preclude exercising some preplanning, familiarization with the general area, and some due diligence, prior to going into there if one isn't familiar with the airspace or has limited exposure.
 
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