Breastfeeding F9 Pilots Want Privacy at Work

Groundpounder said:
Whoa, lets back up a second. I said that there should be paid maternity at F9, and I also said they should make accommodations for mothers to pump their breast milk. And I'm all for people trying to change that. But my point was that if your employer isn't terribly accommodating to new mothers, or you can't afford to go out on unpaid leave, or you can't change jobs, perhaps right now isn't the best time to have a kid. Last time I checked, getting pregnant was something that people can control.
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If we as a country followed that logic, then only 11-12% of families would be able to have kids (https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/leave_report_final.pdf). Of those jobs that have formal paid family leave policies, how many do you think are held by women in their child bearing years? This is a total guess, but I'd say 20% at best. So that would mean that only 2% of jobs in this country would allow the type of family planning you're talking about. And let's dig in into other socialeconomic issues...how many of those are held by non-white women? How many of those jobs added those policies in just the last 5-10 years?

I'm not saying that your argument isn't valid, it's just woefully inadequate and is only a minor piece of the puzzle. If we followed your logic, extremely few people would be able to have families. If you thought Japan's elderly population was a problem...
 
Xcaliber said:
If we as a country followed that logic, then only 11-12% of families would be able to have kids (https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/leave_report_final.pdf). Of those jobs that have formal paid family leave policies, how many do you think are held by women in their child bearing years? This is a total guess, but I'd say 20% at best. So that would mean that only 2% of jobs in this country would allow the type of family planning you're talking about. And let's dig in into other socialeconomic issues...how many of those are held by non-white women? How many of those jobs added those policies in just the last 5-10 years?

I'm not saying that your argument isn't valid, it's just woefully inadequate and is only a minor piece of the puzzle. If we followed your logic, extremely few people would be able to have families. If you thought Japan's elderly population was a problem...
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Less snotty bratty noisy kids around? This is a problem? :P
 
Groundpounder said:
Whoa, lets back up a second. I said that there should be paid maternity at F9, and I also said they should make accommodations for mothers to pump their breast milk. And I'm all for people trying to change that. But my point was that if your employer isn't terribly accommodating to new mothers, or you can't afford to go out on unpaid leave, or you can't change jobs, perhaps right now isn't the best time to have a kid. Last time I checked, getting pregnant was something that people can control.
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Nsfw due to language. See 1:10 mark or so for relevant quote.
 
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Groundpounder said:
Whoa, lets back up a second. I said that there should be paid maternity at F9, and I also said they should make accommodations for mothers to pump their breast milk. And I'm all for people trying to change that. But my point was that if your employer isn't terribly accommodating to new mothers, or you can't afford to go out on unpaid leave, or you can't change jobs, perhaps right now isn't the best time to have a kid. Last time I checked, getting pregnant was something that people can control.
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Amen brother.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Happily married...???

Cause jeez, your comment was just... gaaahhh!
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Oh nice! We've moved to the part of the discussion where we make judgments of the entirety of a person's success as a spouse and therefore the happiness of their marriage based on a few lines of text on the internet! And by association, we stake the claim that our opinions are the only possible opinion that anyone of any strength of moral fiber could have! Rad!

When in doubt, perform a character assassination!
Maximillian_Jenius said:
I think that, that's real easy for you to say as a man. That can simply skeet, skeet and can walk away free and clear!
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Inaccurate.
 
My wife is currently 10 months into pumping and breastfeeding. After taking FMLA, she went back to work full time. She works in a hospital, 12 hour shifts, and has come up with a system that works for her. I say this because I've seen firsthand what goes into the process.
While being a breastfeeding pilot certainly is inconvenient, it's not impossible by any means. Though it varies by woman and how long she's been producing milk, boobs usually fill up to the point of being painful every 4-8 hours. Female pilots could pack an electric breast pump for the overnights, and a manual pump for between flights. Excusing oneself to row 20 on a turn and manually pumping for 5 minutes a side would likely get ya through the next flight. Staying in the cockpit and having whoever you're flying with do the walk around and/or grab coffee would probably double the time allotment. There's these nice things called feeding covers to keep things modest too.
Honestly, if I flew with someone in that situation, it'd be pretty easy to accommodate them. Get a few ounces between flights, pump big time on the overnight, it would work.
Pertaining to FMLA, 12 weeks automatically becomes 10 because a "pilot week" is 6 days, not 7. AND, no doc is going to let a 8-9 month pregnant woman fly a plane, so they're probably burning 3-5 weeks of FMLA before giving birth.
Anyway, difficult situation, but completely doable.
 
melltimejr said:
My wife is currently 10 months into pumping and breastfeeding. After taking FMLA, she went back to work full time. She works in a hospital, 12 hour shifts, and has come up with a system that works for her. I say this because I've seen firsthand what goes into the process.
While being a breastfeeding pilot certainly is inconvenient, it's not impossible by any means. Though it varies by woman and how long she's been producing milk, boobs usually fill up to the point of being painful every 4-8 hours. Female pilots could pack an electric breast pump for the overnights, and a manual pump for between flights. Excusing oneself to row 20 on a turn and manually pumping for 5 minutes a side would likely get ya through the next flight. Staying in the cockpit and having whoever you're flying with do the walk around and/or grab coffee would probably double the time allotment. There's these nice things called feeding covers to keep things modest too.
Honestly, if I flew with someone in that situation, it'd be pretty easy to accommodate them. Get a few ounces between flights, pump big time on the overnight, it would work.
Pertaining to FMLA, 12 weeks automatically becomes 10 because a "pilot week" is 6 days, not 7. AND, no doc is going to let a 8-9 month pregnant woman fly a plane, so they're probably burning 3-5 weeks of FMLA before giving birth.
Anyway, difficult situation, but completely doable.
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I'd like to see that happen on a 24 minute MST.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
I am disgusted by the attitude of *some* on this thread to our fellow professional pilots. The personal insecurities by some of the sexist comments/attitudes/views on here are unworthy of this profession.

Let us take a step back and look at this more objectively. There aren't that many female pilots among the professional ranks overall across airlines. Frontier has what, 1000, pilots? Out of those, how many are female? The national airline average is about 5%, so figure 50 total? Now obviously, not all 50 would be pregnant in a close period of time, but to have 4 (out of 50 mind you) with issues in a short period of time points more to a systemic problem.

When we were negotiating at Colgan, we proposed some very simple language for maternity leave. It was basically they would comply with FMLA standards for all. Holy moly, you would think we were asking management to give us 50% pay raises. Not only that, but some of the ridiculous excuses management was giving on why they couldn't offer FMLA was deplorable.

I know for a fact that Frontier management has been aggressive towards folks leaving the airline recently. With this attitude I would not be surprised if they really were giving unjust pressure to those who are trying to balance being a mother and being a career woman. Or just flat out breaking the law.

The bottom line is no one on here knows the details of this complaint. No one was in the room with these mothers when they went to management with their ask, saw what they were asking, or saw management response, or knows how that response compares to how another airline would handle it. Yet some of you insecure male chauvinists are berating them, taking managements side, not supporting your fellow professional.

Disgusting.
 
It's a poor strategy to go through life expecting other people to change their behavior to accommodate you. Having and raising children is a choice, and it's the individual's responsibility to manage the challenges, not their employer's responsibility to accommodate their choice.
 
Are we really talking about whether its ok to pump milk as a requires crew member in flight? The answer is 'no', case closed.
 
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