WX Radar Training

mshunter said:
Sounds like he can't, but the operation is small enough, and he's involved enough with it, that seeing them broken on the ramp is a nightly thing. That level of involvement is a good thing, if used properly.
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Yet in this case it's used to chew guys out about wearing a company approved polo or extremely tenuous links between shady old pieces of garbage leaking fuel and pilots flying in "weather".
 
UAL747400 said:
Disagreements aside, what is the airplane/equipment being used by@b182fly ?

It matters because if it's not a larger or newer airplane. some of the info from this thread does not apply.

Some equipment doesn't automatically stabilize for aircraft attitude. Most smaller airplanes, gain -1/+1 doesn't mean anything, nor would the "target" function.

The auto scan fuction is the best there is out there, which mimics NOAA's composite radar displays. Paints every level and depicts the most intense part it sees. I don't know which units have this specifically. I think the newer A32X is the oldest and the E1XX and most business jets have it.
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I fly Citation V's and Ultra's. Honeywell Primus 660 radar.
 
@typhoonpilot is providing good info here.

Painting 8,000-12,000' from a mid-high 30s flight level is tilted way too far down. Sure, you'll pick up some returns, but at jet speeds you won't pick it up until you're far too close in to avoid it. At Metro speeds, perhaps that rule of thumb is more useful. Flying through the ITCZ in any sort of transport jet requires much more time to plan, especially oceanic when deviations need to be worked out over CPDLC or HF ahead of time. Of course, the major takeaway is to tilt down enough that you're picking up actual precipitation, not frozen tops.
 
ASpilot2be said:
This has been a perfectly timed thread. I have no real experience using the radar, and now put in an environment where it is needed.
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Ya... you don't really need it on the west side of the mountains in the PNW. You can fly through almost everything and it'll be fine. The inversion does not let anything build to a point of having to go around it. Some turbulence and rain that makes it look like you're a submarine instead of an airplane, but virtually no convection.
 
I remember one summer when we set a new company record for lightning strikes in a season. Most of those were deviating around weather and trying to stay clear of the heavy stuff. Obviously Mr. Management pilot hasn't flown the line very long to understand the violent and unpredictable nature of these storms. When the line goes from Canada to Texas and you pick the level 2 area to punch through and just so happen to pick up a lightening strike, whoops. Bad luck.

You must be an absolute joy to fly for.


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jhugz said:
I remember one summer when we set a new company record for lightning strikes in a season. Most of those were deviating around weather and trying to stay clear of the heavy stuff. Obviously Mr. Management pilot hasn't flown the line very long to understand the violent and unpredictable nature of these storms. When the line goes from Canada to Texas and you pick the level 2 area to punch through and just so happen to pick up a lightening strike, whoops. Bad luck.

You must be an absolute joy to fly for.


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Vast vast vast majority of lightening strikes happening between +10C to -10C OAT.
 
wheelsup said:
Vast vast vast majority of lightening strikes happening between +10C to -10C OAT.
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If I'm flying through convective weather I'm doing it at positive temperatures. That way if it's worse then expected all I got to worry about is keeping the greasy side down and not icing. Flying the metro in the Midwest that usually meant below 15k.
 
jhugz said:
If I'm flying through convective weather I'm doing it at positive temperatures. That way if it's worse then expected all I got to worry about is keeping the greasy side down and not icing. Flying the metro in the Midwest that usually meant below 15k.
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I don't fly through convective weather

Works good last long time
 
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Posted these before, but they're relevant again. Aim for the spot with blue skies and you're golden. :)


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dasleben said:
@typhoonpilot is providing good info here.

Painting 8,000-12,000' from a mid-high 30s flight level is tilted way too far down. Sure, you'll pick up some returns, but at jet speeds you won't pick it up until you're far too close in to avoid it. At Metro speeds, perhaps that rule of thumb is more useful. Flying through the ITCZ in any sort of transport jet requires much more time to plan, especially oceanic when deviations need to be worked out over CPDLC or HF ahead of time. Of course, the major takeaway is to tilt down enough that you're picking up actual precipitation, not frozen tops.
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Nah, you guys are right, for cruise at least. I admit it. Sorry about the sarcasm... :)

Still not convinced at just leaving it set to paint the low flight levels when flying lower though for the reasons I already mentioned. I don't think anyone was advocating that either and I'm certainly not advocating just leaving it set at the 8-12k range.

Perhaps I'm confusing what the weather service calls the core of the storm and what is actually useful at finding said storm with radar...

On another note, can you accurately paint anything more than 100 miles away with modern radar? My radar units aren't great and don't really work well beyond 40-60 miles.
 
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jhugz said:
If I'm flying through convective weather I'm doing it at positive temperatures. That way if it's worse then expected all I got to worry about is keeping the greasy side down and not icing. Flying the metro in the Midwest that usually meant below 15k.
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Conversely, at FL240 unless you're in some seriously nasty stuff you shouldn't at all be in in the first place, turbulence and icing are both much milder. This was last 4th of July over the northern Dakota and a cell painting mostly green and yellow with isolated small pockets of red.
 
UAL747400 said:
On another note, can you accurately paint anything more than 100 miles away with modern radar? My radar units aren't great and don't really work well beyond 40-60 miles.
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100-120 miles seems to be where the radar becomes accurate.

Our newer radars depict "something" approaching 200nm out.... Good for general planning.

On the old ERJs we flew cut those numbers in half. Unfortunately you were still moving at the weather at the same speed.
 
Baronman said:
100-120 miles seems to be where the radar becomes accurate.

Our newer radars depict "something" approaching 200nm out.... Good for general planning.

On the old ERJs we flew cut those numbers in half. Unfortunately you were still moving at the weather at the same speed.
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And then you have those old mono-chromatic radar displays connected to tiny dishes with beam widths of what has to be a least a million degrees.
 
jhugz said:
I remember one summer when we set a new company record for lightning strikes in a season. Most of those were deviating around weather and trying to stay clear of the heavy stuff. Obviously Mr. Management pilot hasn't flown the line very long to understand the violent and unpredictable nature of these storms. When the line goes from Canada to Texas and you pick the level 2 area to punch through and just so happen to pick up a lightening strike, whoops. Bad luck.

You must be an absolute joy to fly for.


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That's cool, AMF hasn't had a lightning strike in year and a half since we adjusted the minimum fuel loads to at least allow for a chance to avoid "weird weather", via the ASAP program. With the strong advisory to carefully analyse the the weather and file a different route/take even more fuel if needed.

Even before then, only certain types got lightning strikes. The cowboys. The perpetuators of the "freight dog" stereo type, that's actually been dead for quite some time, since the repeat offenders get fired. At least here...

Oh, and I fly the line every day, guy, and there's no freaking way I would have shot the gap you posted in something as slow as a 210. :)
 
gotWXdagain said:
Conversely, at FL240 unless you're in some seriously nasty stuff you shouldn't at all be in in the first place, turbulence and icing are both much milder. This was last 4th of July over the northern Dakota and a cell painting mostly green and yellow with isolated small pockets of red.
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I beg to differ, depending on geographic location of course. I stand by anything more than 10k thick COULD give you a bad time. Or maybe I'm a complete bish with turbulence at this point... :)
 
UAL747400 said:
That's cool, AMF hasn't had a lightning strike in year and a half since we adjusted the minimum fuel loads to at least allow for a chance to avoid "weird weather", via the ASAP program. With the strong advisory to carefully analyse the the weather and file a different route/take even more fuel if needed.

Even before then, only certain types got lightning strikes. The cowboys. The perpetuators of the "freight dog" stereo type, that's actually been dead for quite some time, since the repeat offenders get fired. At least here...

Oh, and I fly the line every day, guy, and there's no freaking way I would have shot the gap you posted in something as slow as a 210. :)
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It's a metro but ok. You'll make a great airline pilot someday.

Again, you must be a joy to fly for.
 
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