The "cancelled" Delta 737-900's and Embraer 190's

jtrain609 said:
And the 190 can handle leg lengths that the 717 can't. We commonly load up with 5+ hours of fuel.
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Actually, not really. The "advanced range" 190 (which takes a weight penalty in MZFW) can do 2400 miles. The 717 can do 2371 miles (which is an oddly specific number).

So I guess the 190 (with fewer passengers) gets an extra 29 miles of range.
 
did they buy these 190s because boeing gave them a packaged deal with the new 737s? To me it doesn't make sense to buy these since they have the 717. Jetblue doesn't like theirs all that much and AA is going to park theirs.
 
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BobDDuck said:
Actually, not really. The "advanced range" 190 (which takes a weight penalty in MZFW) can do 2400 miles. The 717 can do 2371 miles (which is an oddly specific number).

So I guess the 190 (with fewer passengers) gets an extra 29 miles of range.
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I've had Delta 717 drivers tell me they can't get from AUS to LAX, an easy 1200 miles.

Maybe it's an alternate issue? We're going a whole hell of a lot longer legs than the 717 is on the west coast, for better or worse.
 
skyw82 said:
did they buy these 190s because boeing gave them a packaged deal with the new 737s? To me it doesn't make sense to buy these since they have the 717. Jetblue doesn't like theirs all that much and AA is going to park theirs.
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There are too many variables to compare deployment of one fleet type between airlines. Network,other fleets, and most importantly price paid for a certain fleet type all change the equation dramatically.
 
I can tell you that there are many routes out of NYC that the 717 CAN do, but takes such a weight penalty for a fuel load that it carries less pax than a CRJ 900. The -900 can take 76 pax and enough fuel for headwinds and an alternate than many of the routes originally thought for the 717 have been restricted in pax count by the -900 only by range reliability.
 
skyw82 said:
did they buy these 190s because boeing gave them a packaged deal with the new 737s? To me it doesn't make sense to buy these since they have the 717. Jetblue doesn't like theirs all that much and AA is going to park theirs.
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DL needs more 100-130 seat aircraft to upgauge/park the 50-seaters. Unfortunately, there are very few 717's available in the market right now, so they started shopping for the next most attractive option -- which, at the point DL signed the contract, was the E190. E190 market values are depressed at the moment as there are quite a few in storage or being actively marketed, so DL capitalized on the market softness to get a type (100 - 130 seat aircraft) they needed anyway. I suspect that Boeing gave them very, very attractive E190 lease rates (probably enough to offset most of the fuel burn/operational disadvantages) in exchange for the 737-900ER order.
 
Does anyone know the pay rates for these? I'm curious.
I have a feeling the upgrade time will be under 2 years.
 
higney85 said:
I can tell you that there are many routes out of NYC that the 717 CAN do, but takes such a weight penalty for a fuel load that it carries less pax than a CRJ 900. The -900 can take 76 pax and enough fuel for headwinds and an alternate than many of the routes originally thought for the 717 have been restricted in pax count by the -900 only by range reliability.
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Heh.

-sigh-

Oh, and the nine hundy can do that. Sometimes.
 
I'm guessing the E190 takes over the NY and ORD Shuttle. Its really the perfect airplane for the amount of passengers these days on the shuttle.
 
Kingairer said:
I'm guessing the E190 takes over the NY and ORD Shuttle. Its really the perfect airplane for the amount of passengers these days on the shuttle.
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Especially since your main competitor in the NE Shuttle business is also flying mostly E190's....
 
Derg said:
The world doesn't hinge upon the union. It makes us all feel important, but at the end of the day, it's work rules, pay rates, benefits, protection, representation but any "governance" of the corporation apart from having a pilot representative at some of the board meetings is simply an illusion.

Money is going to do what money needs to do.
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Is part of the problem that pilots forget that they're essentially blue collar, and not white collar.......ie, they're workers and not governance/management.......and need to be thinking as such and looking out for such, and not assuming that they are side by side with management?
 
MikeD said:
Is part of the problem that pilots forget that they're essentially blue collar, and not white collar.......ie, they're workers and not governance/management.......and need to be thinking as such and looking out for such, and not assuming that they are side by side with management?
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Yes.
 
skyw82 said:
did they buy these 190s because boeing gave them a packaged deal with the new 737s? To me it doesn't make sense to buy these since they have the 717. Jetblue doesn't like theirs all that much and AA is going to park theirs.
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JetBlue likes theirs...I mean ours.


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