AWAC TA Failed

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Umm... Nope. Just ran through the ones I had sitting in a research folder... Delta, Alaska, American, United, Hawaiian, Spirit, Fedex, Eagle and PSA are all Section 3. Southwest and Frontier are Section 4.

You wouldn't call two (used to be three with AirTran) of the mainline passenger carriers "relatively common?" *shrugs* Semantics, I guess. You knew what I meant!

 

[ScorpionStinger]

What are you getting mad at me for? I'm just stating my opinion based on observation. If I'm wrong, then say so. What's the goal? Pay increases? Or job security? It seems to me that if you get the latter first, then the former will come. If done in the reverse order; not so much.

In my opinion, the commonly held macroview of the FFD industry does not apply to AWAC. AWAC is poorly positioned to compete for work in the FFD sector. To survive and gain flying contracts, AWAC must be able to show prospective customers that it has a stable labor situation and can provide desired services at competitive costs. AWAC's labor situation is not stable, it does not have a product that customers want (70+ seat aircraft),and its costs are too high. Again, if I'm wrong, say so.

And you're right; I'm fine with the prospect of my employer getting more work, because that's the only way to have real, meaningful job security. That said, I'd rather see AWAC survive.

I'm not upset. I value your opinion. We disagree on the concept of job security in the regional industry where pilots are looking for quick upgrades, bounuses, Flow to majors & advancement to a major, higher pay & QOL...

Who are the pilots looking for "Job Security" at the commuter/regional airlines? Well you'll mostly find FO's and/or Captains over the age of 50 who are looking for "Job Security" at their commuter/regional carrier until manditory age 65 retirement.

This era of strong demand and future retirements of Part 121 Flight Crewmenbers how is there a "Job Security" issue when everyone is hiring??????

Why settle for a "Great Lakes" contract (Pay & QOL) when TSA, Piedmont, Endevor, Compass, Skywest, CommutAir, Horizon Air, and perhaps even Republic Airways are offering higher pay, better QOL, lower insurance, and non-concessionary contracts?

5 years the hiring at the majors will be rampent! How is there a job security issue?

Why take less? Why save a company bidding its' self to the bottom?

I refuse to sell my profession to the lowest bottom feeding bidder! I've been watching this industry a long time!

Pilot are the cause of these low paying wages.

Why WORK FOR FREE just to have the chance to hit the Major carrier lotto 5-6 years from now? DUMB freckled face, SJS deseased pilots!

Its like a stupid young CFI's I'm now hearing about who are giving FREE Flight Instructions by working an EXTRA day at Academies flying an extra day without pay! All just to build flight time quicker and under cut fellow CFI's... all the while the COMPANY is charging the students $65/hr for Ground brief & Flight Instruction. Those CFI's working those extra days are getting 0 pay!

This is the stupidity occuring in our industry! These same idiots are going to join your union, and/or vote us all to the bottom just for that lottery ticket 4 - 6 years down the road.

 

[Maurus]

Why settle for a "Great Lakes" contract (Pay & QOL) when TSA, Piedmont, Endevor, Compass, Skywest, CommutAir, Horizon Air, and perhaps even Republic Airways are offering higher pay, better QOL, lower insurance, and non-concessionary contracts?

You make no sense. Your current contract at AWAC still is better than most of not every one of the airlines listed. Hell, your TA was better.

 

[Stryker172]

Can someone explain to me why AWAC pilots should have voted yes and why it matters to you?

 

[Flying Saluki]

I'm not upset. I value your opinion. We disagree on the concept of job security in the regional industry where pilots are looking for quick upgrades, bounuses, Flow to majors & advancement to a major, higher pay & QOL...

Who are the pilots looking for "Job Security" at the commuter/regional airlines? Well you'll mostly find FO's and/or Captains over the age of 50 who are looking for "Job Security" at their commuter/regional carrier until manditory age 65 retirement.

This era of strong demand and future retirements of Part 121 Flight Crewmenbers how is there a "Job Security" issue when everyone is hiring??????

Why settle for a "Great Lakes" contract (Pay & QOL) when TSA, Piedmont, Endevor, Compass, Skywest, CommutAir, Horizon Air, and perhaps even Republic Airways are offering higher pay, better QOL, lower insurance, and non-concessionary contracts?

5 years the hiring at the majors will be rampent! How is there a job security issue?

Why take less? Why save a company bidding its' self to the bottom?

I refuse to sell my profession to the lowest bottom feeding bidder! I've been watching this industry a long time!

Pilot are the cause of these low paying wages.

Why WORK FOR FREE just to have the chance to hit the Major carrier lotto 5-6 years from now? DUMB freckled face, SJS deseased pilots!

Its like a stupid young CFI's I'm now hearing about who are giving FREE Flight Instructions by working an EXTRA day at Academies flying an extra day without pay! All just to build flight time quicker and under cut fellow CFI's... all the while the COMPANY is charging the students $65/hr for Ground brief & Flight Instruction. Those CFI's working those extra days are getting 0 pay!

This is the stupidity occuring in our industry! These same idiots are going to join your union, and/or vote us all to the bottom just for that lottery ticket 4 - 6 years down the road.

Not everyone can advance to bigger and better. Not everyone wants to. I have several friends at AWAC who are quite content to stay there. They have homes and families, and they want to live out their lives where they are. You ask why settle for a Great Lake contract. I ask, if you're moving on, what is the imperative to improve it? If you want to advance your career, good luck and more power to you. But don't set fire to someone else's house while you're walking out the door.

 

[wheelsup]

Not everyone can advance to bigger and better. Not everyone wants to. I have several friends at AWAC who are quite content to stay there. They have homes and families, and they want to live out their lives where they are. You ask why settle for a Great Lake contract. I ask, if you're moving on, what is the imperative to improve it? If you want to advance your career, good luck and more power to you. But don't set fire to someone else's house while you're walking out the door.

Hoping AWAC and their current bases will be around for the long term reminds me of the guys in 2003 who thought the same thing. Flying the 146 out of ATW was a good gig but if there was any one constant in aviation, it's that things change.

 

[Maurus]

Can someone explain to me why AWAC pilots should have voted yes and why it matters to you?

No one is saying AWAC pilots should have voted yes. We are saying that if you expect a notably better contract the second time around then you are going to be waiting a long time.

People at every airline think they have more leverage and their company has more money than they actually have.

 

[ScorpionStinger]

Not everyone can advance to bigger and better. Not everyone wants to. I have several friends at AWAC who are quite content to stay there. They have homes and families, and they want to live out their lives where they are. You ask why settle for a Great Lake contract. I ask, if you're moving on, what is the imperative to improve it? If you want to advance your career, good luck and more power to you. But don't set fire to someone else's house while you're walking out the door.

I understand 100%. I have that same mindset and views. I wish many did as well. Just not the reality of how the younger ones are thinking or voting this day & age.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

It sure would be funny if on our 50th anniversary year the company decided to close up shop because we couldn't find any more flying due to this TA being voted down.

Full pay to the last day. Good luck replacing our lift quickly.

No offense, but 70 CRJ2 fifty seater jets are a drop in the bucket. They can be gone [insert snap fingers] just like that.

I have no knowledge on what was turned down, what you guys want, or what the goal is. All I'm saying is that for a regional with only 70 fifty-seaters, the ball isn't really in your court when it comes to "replacing your lift quickly."

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Agreed, I'm more than a little tired of mainline union guys telling regional pilots to "..lie back and think of England".

For the life of me I don't understand why any union pilot group should agree to work for less than Skywest. 1st year pay of 35/hr should be the absolute minimum for any pilot group.

Because the reality is, unfortunately, that regionals are not a legacy nor a LCC. Legacies and LCCs do their own flying, fly their own equipment, and they are dependant on no one and do their own thing. Regionals by definition are outsourced work for major partners, rely solely on revenue from the majors, and agreements for flying can come and go. Leverage takes a huge hit in the regional world when another operator can do the same flying for your major airline at a lower cost.

 

[Stryker172]

No one is saying AWAC pilots should have voted yes. We are saying that if you expect a notably better contract the second time around then you are going to be waiting a long time.

People at every airline think they have more leverage and their company has more money than they actually have.

I dont mind waiting. We have a good set up here, better than most. No, I also dont buy into the fear mongering that AWAC is going away in a couple years either. I really dont get why you guys have gotten so worked up over this.

 

[Table Two]

We are currently on a concessionary contract.

This new TA was concessionary wheras the whole pilot group would have a decreased take home paycheck.

Despite the fact we are stuck flying 50 seaters, we have 800-ish pilots which is more valuable.

Our 6 owners make money hand over fist.

We can get more flying.

Why the f should we take a voluntary paycut?

 

[surreal1221]

Nice work gents. Well, and I'm sure gentlewomen.