Student loans could help avert U.S. airline pilot shortage: union head

NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
*deep breath*
NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Who on Darwin's green earth thinks "MORE STUDENT LOANS!!!" is the answer?
Nonononoo nnoooo

Sorry, I have no rational response to this, merely one of overwhelming terrified existential angst
Oh God, what does the future hold?
DO WE EVEN EXIST?
:cry:
 
ALPA is missing one hell of an opportunity here. ALPA financed flight training at an ALPA flight school, ALPA carriers sponsoring the students to help defray costs, getting the pilots they need. Locking in pilots to help alleviate their staffing issues.
Or maybe they could quit giving the farm away every time their members negotiate a contract at a regional and entice people to join the profession.
 
Availability of capital is one thing, but overall training costs (fuel is tres cher) are another problem.

If they really want to solve the issue, free up some capital, give tax incentives on aviation fuel, reform the legal system in terms of GA and the elephant in the room is that it makes no sense to take out $80K in borrowed money to arrive at a job that doesn't pay a livable, ADULT, wage until many years into the profession.

My opinion only.

Thank you Derg for making me feel like a sane person. At least for today.

Cheers,

Dave
 
Or maybe they could quit giving the farm away every time their members negotiate a contract at a regional and entice people to join the profession.
The only way RJ wages ever go up enough to entice people to join is for mainline to fly the RJ at mainline wages(They're flying DC9s after all). The cost structure of a regional with the pilots making mainline wages makes no sense to continue to farm out the lift.
 
You see the same thing in higher education too. How many times do you hear politicians babble about making higher education more available? The answer is always to make more loans available it's never to make concerted efforts to lessen the costs of the education. Universities do virtually nothing to lower costs for students and why should they? The money keeps flowing in and the students are left holding increasingly larger sums of crippling debt.
 
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Yes. What other behavior does that excuse? Crossing a picket line? Theft? Murder? Clearly legality doesn't define the line, so what does? Taking care of dependents is an ultimate rationalization, because it's an underlying trait of social creatures and an established natural law. To kill another and take their land and their dwellings and their agriculture to better provide for you and yours is an underlying theme that has recurred since the dawn of time. Do we continue to accept that as an ultimate rationalization as beings capable of rational examination of our circumstance?

-Fox

So should I stop working hard and bettering myself because I'm taking jobs from those who aren't willing to put in the same commitment?

And you're comparing someone pursuing a higher education degree to crossing a picket line?

really-seth-and-amy.jpeg


You make a better fox than troll.
 
You see the same thing in higher education too. How many times do you hear politicians babble about making higher education more available? The answer is always to make more loans available it's never to make concerted efforts to lessen the costs of the education. Universities do virtually nothing to lower costs for students and why should they? The money keeps flowing in and the students are left holding increasingly larger sums of crippling debt.

For sure.

Loans are relatively easy to get for college, which is good and bad. Good for people that use it for worthy professions, bad for us all when you've got sixth-year Art History and Communication majors running around leveraged to the hilt bitching about how no one was there to give them a $100K job upon graduating.
 
A lot of the pressures to attend college comes from parents. Part of the American "dream" is for ones child to do better/have it better than they have it. Most parents think that a college education is the pathway to achieving that. It's been past down from generation to generation.

Out of all of my friends from college, I'm one of the few who's actually applying the education I received towards my career. My college roommate, a geology major, is a security guard at a mall. Another one of my buddies, a computer science major, got his girlfriend pregnant after graduating and couldn't find work. He ended up enlisting in the army. He now runs his father's janitorial cleaning service. And then there's another friend of mine, a graphic design major, who is currently picking up additional education in ministry. He never seemed like the type that he was very religious. But pastors make a decent living I guess...
 
You see the same thing in higher education too. How many times do you hear politicians babble about making higher education more available? The answer is always to make more loans available it's never to make concerted efforts to lessen the costs of the education. Universities do virtually nothing to lower costs for students and why should they? The money keeps flowing in and the students are left holding increasingly larger sums of crippling debt.
I concur.

It costs a LOT to be a university. You're not just paying for a seat in a classroom, you're paying for resources. Say one takes a class where one runs data through a supercomputer run by the university. The computer costs millions per day to keep running. Essentially all of that is covered by various grants; maybe a few cents are covered by the student's tuition. But you still got to access it! What a privilege! Now cough up that $60,000, we gotta re-turf the quad.
Research is always the priority--students, especially undergrads, are never a priority. Ever. And you see that in the rising costs of tuition. But stuff gets done! Heck, this week the physics and chemistry Nobel Prizes get awarded, and that's pretty neat.

That's my $0.50 in all its sentence-fragment glory. Actually, maybe it was your $0.50 and I reworded it (kinda badly)? I don't know anymore.

I'm going to go back to my fetal position now.
 
A lot of the pressures to attend college comes from parents. Part of the American "dream" is for ones child to do better/have it better than they have it. Most parents think that a college education is the pathway to achieving that. It's been past down from generation to generation.

Out of all of my friends from college, I'm one of the few who's actually applying the education I received towards my career. My college roommate, a geology major, is a security guard at a mall. Another one of my buddies, a computer science major, got his girlfriend pregnant after graduating and couldn't find work. He ended up enlisting in the army. He now runs his father's janitorial cleaning service. And then there's another friend of mine, a graphic design major, who is currently picking up additional education in ministry. He never seemed like the type that he was very religious. But pastors make a decent living I guess...
And how many would be perfectly happy in a trade environment? Probably more than a few. The world needs electricians, plumbers, carpenters, HVAC repair, machine operators etc. You can make a very decent living coming up through those ranks. And if you're half way smart, you'll be running your own crew or whole job in no time flat. Can some trades flow up and down with the the economy? Sure, so can most professions though. When I was laid off from XJT, my four years as a generator mechanic in the Air Force led to being able to help my buddy at his HVAC business for cash money. Got me through until I could find the gig I have now. It was hard work but the pay was good. We need to tell kids there are other ways to be happy and make a decent living in life other than college.
 
I just don't understand why people seem to think that going to school for the 'craft' trades is such a shameful thing. A four-year degree shouldn't be turning into the default minimum acceptable level of education for American adults. (Disclosure: I went to college for a traditionally-academic subject and am very happy with how things turned out, so don't take this as an anti-college thing, per se.)

Edit: Particularly as going to said trade school, in many cases, can result in a significantly higher whole-life income and quality of life.
 
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So should I stop working hard and bettering myself because I'm taking jobs from those who aren't willing to put in the same commitment?

That's exactly what I said, if A + 3 = squirrel.

And you're comparing someone pursuing a higher education degree to crossing a picket line?

I almost don't want to respond to your post—you'd rather throw out sensational non-sequiturs to evoke an emotional response in the third-party reader than actually read and respond logically to the things that I actually took the time to articulate.

You make a better fox than troll.

I am quite serious when I state in no uncertain terms that people need to examine—and defend—their motivations, their rationalizations, and the environment in which they exist.

Many people have a strong negative emotional response to the notion of crossing a picket line. Many others have a strong negative emotional response at the thought of a union forming at their company, and see no problem in union-busting activities. Your perspective doesn't make a behavior absolutely "right" or absolutely "wrong", no matter how strongly you hold your opinion, and this seems to be something that's very often forgotten.

It's really simple to make life black and white, but it's intellectually dishonest. Some degree of delineation is generally required to function, but insisting on solid contours is disingenuous.

I am constantly challenging and reexamining my positions, opinions, preconceptions and ideologies. I share many positions with the majority. I also go against the grain on a large number. In this case, I see the promulgation of educational requirements, the increased cost of education, and the increased requirements for punitively crippling long-term debt to achieve a functional place in society as an incredibly destructive triumvirate that is ruining a generation and destined to ruin more unless it is challenged. Anyone who participates is a de facto enabler, and as I see it, that is only defensible if someone has a good reason.

What constitutes a good reason to enable the destruction of a generation of students? That depends on the individual and their decision.

Some individuals feel that their own self-interest ("feeding the family") constitutes nicely.

Some feel that the same rationale might apply to crossing a picket line to work.

Some might argue that "feeding the family" is a natural imperative—natural law—and that it is a viable defense for any number of behaviors which, in absence of a justification, would be otherwise perceived as evil.

That you, or I, or anyone else disagrees with their rationale does not make it right or wrong. It is up to the individual in question to examine the reasons for their actions.

Almost nothing is black and white. (Even I have a bit of blue and purple)

-Fox
 
I just don't understand why people seem to think that going to school for the 'craft' trades is such a shameful thing. A four-year degree shouldn't be turning into the default minimum acceptable level of education for American adults. (Disclosure: I went to college for a traditionally-academic subject and am very happy with how things turned out, so don't take this as an anti-college thing, per se.)

Edit: Particularly as going to said trade school, in many cases, can result in a significantly higher whole-life income and quality of life.

I lose my medical for flying I'm taking my GI money and some savings and going to an underwater welder school.

Could I make more money doing something else yeah maybe. But I'll make plenty doing that and I love diving so that's a win for me.
 
I lose my medical for flying I'm taking my GI money and some savings and going to an underwater welder school.

Could I make more money doing something else yeah maybe. But I'll make plenty doing that and I love diving so that's a win for me.

Wish I would of thought of that. I got my degree in Underwater basket weaving :bang:
 
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