Beech Premier

TrustMeI'maPilot said:
Most CJ's or CJ1's that I've seen have Garmin transponders and I believe they are working an upgrade option.

I agree the CJ2 is a better airplane but I don't think the CJ1 is crappy at all. That's what I thought it would be when we got it but I've been pleasantly surprised.
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Coming from a 3 I have been very underwhelmed when contracting in 1+.

The information I provided regarding ADSB paths is based on Textron ADSB technology briefing rev. 10 dated late July of this year.
 
MikeOH58 said:
Coming from a 3 I have been very underwhelmed when contracting in 1+.

The information I provided regarding ADSB paths is based on Textron ADSB technology briefing rev. 10 dated late July of this year.
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I would be too in that situation! Have to think of the CJ1 for what is it is, a Beech C90 competitor. Does very well at that. Better range and speed for the same per mile cost.

In terms of ADSB, the CJ and CJ1 don't have the entire proline 21 integrated system. Complete mixture of transponders and FMS's. I wouldn't be worried or not if Textron has a plan, there will be 3rd parties that will get an STC on them.
 
Get a citation ultra. That will fit into your less than 2 million budget, and is a very capable airplane. ADS-B will be an issue, but it will be an issue for any sub-$2 million jet you buy today.
 
RA390 said:
Flew one charter for a little, here are some of my thoughts on the airplane. I apologize in advance this will probably read like a bunch of rambling, I'll just type things as I remember them from my time on the airplane.

-The 1,600mi range that they advertise is a joke
-You will rarely top the tanks off on the premier. With full fuel we had 17 pounds of payload (2 pilots).
-Full fuel will let you fly for about 3:30-3:45mins, generally cruise at .78 and getting up to F410 was never an issue (You'll spend a lot of time up there to squeak every mile of range out of the airplane) For every pax and bag you add, will need to take fuel out
-Need an IFR alternate? There goes ~800lbs..... Essentially 2 Passengers and their bags cant go on the trip anymore
-Passengers loved the airplane for the large cabin in it's class. When compared to the CJ2 or CJ3 it's pretty nice back there... Then you'd have to make 2 fuel stops to get across the country and they were over it.
-The baggage compartment was huge. You can fit a small truck back there
-6 Full size adults and you will be right up against max zero fuel weight, if not over depending on the size of the people.
-Flight safety has a monopoly on that type rating with only a few simulators in existence. Expect to pay $27,000+ for the type
-A couple of pax flying 1.5-2 hours legs is the sweet spot for this airplane

The airplane is incredibly weight sensitive. I'd say 8/10 departures we did were right up against max gross, but I suppose that really depends on your typical mission. There is a really great network of Premier mechanics and they all work closely together to help you out (Beech factory, Flight Saftey, Ect..) I would however do some homework to find out what the support network will be 5-10 yrs down the line. They don't make the airplane anymore and it can be difficult to find parts. The lack of slats and thrust reversers make for long TO/LDG distances. Things go down hill fast when hot/high. I still have all the performance data/flight safety checklist somewhere. If you have a typical mission in mind I can run the numbers to see how it'd work out for you guys. Fltplan.com has a great profile on the airplane. The fuel burn and flight times are nearly spot on.
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Great advice. I'll check into FltPlan. Thanks!
 
spoolinup22 said:
Operating budget is around 600k a year

That includes about 200-250 flying hours. Hangar, Type/ Recurrent are about 100k of it.
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WHAT?!?!? I am NYC based and pay less then that to hangar a larger jet + 4 training events per year.

The math just doesn't work for me.

Say you average 150 gallons per hour on a 3 hour flight.

150g x 250 hours/year = 37,500 gallons. x National Average $4.39 = $165,000 (approx)
Hangar, Type/Recurrent = $100,000
2 pilot salary + benefits = $250,000
Engine Program - $140/hour/engine x 250/year = $70,000
Insurance - $20,000

We are already topping $600k and haven't even touched scheduled airframe/avionics Mx, unscheduled Mx, subscriptions, crew travel expenses, bonus, and debt on aircraft if it isn't purchased out right.

I know you don't want to hear this, but get a King Air...On this budget I don't see him being able to afford and sustain operating this jet.
 
MikeOH58 said:
WHAT?!?!? I am NYC based and pay less then that to hangar a larger jet + 4 training events per year.

The math just doesn't work for me.

Say you average 150 gallons per hour on a 3 hour flight.

150g x 250 hours/year = 37,500 gallons. x National Average $4.39 = $165,000 (approx)
Hangar, Type/Recurrent = $100,000
2 pilot salary + benefits = $250,000
Engine Program - $140/hour/engine x 250/year = $70,000
Insurance - $20,000

We are already topping $600k and haven't even touched scheduled airframe/avionics Mx, unscheduled Mx, subscriptions, crew travel expenses, bonus, and debt on aircraft if it isn't purchased out right.

I know you don't want to hear this, but get a King Air...On this budget I don't see him being able to afford and sustain operating this jet.
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250 hours (1200/hr - operating costs) 300k
Insurance 20k
Hangar 10k (will be paid off in 16 months from now so eventually that goes away)
Type/ Recurrent 15k
Engines 40k
Charts 10k
MX 75k
Plane Note 10k (guy has connections to get 25 year loans)

These numbers are for something like an Eclipse. They are high for an Eclipse, but mid range for a CJ1, Mustang

I get paid through a different company to still fly this aircraft, so salary isn't a factor. Travel expenses aren't as big of a factor because they get billed to a seperate company.

Just what I came up with...
 
spoolinup22 said:
250 hours (1200/hr - operating costs) 300k
Insurance 20k
Hangar 10k (will be paid off in 16 months from now so eventually that goes away)
Type/ Recurrent 15k
Engines 40k
Charts 10k
MX 75k
Plane Note 10k (guy has connections to get 25 year loans)

These numbers are for something like an Eclipse. They are high for an Eclipse, but mid range for a CJ1, Mustang

I get paid through a different company to still fly this aircraft, so salary isn't a factor. Travel expenses aren't as big of a factor because they get billed to a seperate company.

Just what I came up with...
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I guess I am not really in this world, but having a little background in managing maintenance $75k a year for maintenance and $1200/ hr for operating costs sounds suspiciously low for a jet. I mean you can break $75k a year on a caravan without trying and those are cheap and reliable.
 
The beechjet can do everything the premier does and at likely a cheaper purchase price...unless you're primarily looking for a single pilot airplane.
 
You can definitely operate a CJ1 for $600k/year if your salary and expenses are not included, and you finance at 25 years. Get one on TAP and Proparts to make it easier to budget. This won't include any upgrade reserve, and you have to get one that doesn't have any corrosion issues.

It does sound like he's stretching a bit though if he needs a 25 year loan on a $1-1.5m plane.
 
Just for discussion, many of the parts on these planes, especially the avionics screens are not made anymore. We just had a CRT go out in our X, without proparts it would of been almost 25K. We got a used one, and who knows how long it will last. As for the loan, 25 years to afford a jet seems like a long time for an asset that will be worthless in about 10 more years.
 
Roger Roger said:
I guess I am not really in this world, but having a little background in managing maintenance $75k a year for maintenance and $1200/ hr for operating costs sounds suspiciously low for a jet. I mean you can break $75k a year on a caravan without trying and those are cheap and reliable.
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go look online at what people are saying they pay per hour/ per mx inspection....those numbers are a bit higher than the eclipse.
 
TrustMeI'maPilot said:
You can definitely operate a CJ1 for $600k/year if your salary and expenses are not included, and you finance at 25 years. Get one on TAP and Proparts to make it easier to budget. This won't include any upgrade reserve, and you have to get one that doesn't have any corrosion issues.

It does sound like he's stretching a bit though if he needs a 25 year loan on a $1-1.5m plane.
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this guy is in the financial services world and does very well for himself, i can't explain why he does the 25 year other than it makes sense for him / his company / etc.
 
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