Contract Negotiations and Pilot Shortages

[amorris311]

EXCUSE ME?

Are you defending what they did? Unlike you, I look in the past to make sure those mistakes aren't made again in the future. It was a vindictive, arrogant, SCUMBAGISH thing to do.

I wrote that because you weren't even in the industry then. You have a comment for everything whether or not it concerns you. You name call off the bat but when I say something about your fellow coworkers who made a horrific decision in the mid 80's you give me some BS line that it was a long time ago and most are gone.

 

[Seggy]

Personal story time....

When I was MEC Chair at Colgan, when two of our codeshare partners were furloughing and we knew as a MEC that there were going to be pilots out on the street, we as a MEC talked about it for about a nanosecond and immediately knew we had to try to do something to help the furloughed pilots out. As other groups did, if they wanted to come to Colgan we would ensure they didn't need to resign their seniority number. It wasn't that hard to convey that to our management and for our management to agree to that.

 

[Seggy]

I wrote that because you weren't even in the industry then. You have a comment for everything whether or not it concerns you. You name call off the bat but when I say something about your fellow coworkers who made a horrific decision in the mid 80's you give me some BS line that it was a long time ago and most are gone.

Great job of taking something out of context and making things up!

 

[derg]

A lot of good people got burned by their union leadership and some of their fellow pilots at CMR.

 

[amorris311]

Great job of taking something out of context and making things up!

Making things up?

Walk away while you're ahead.

 

[Seggy]

A lot of good people got burned by their union leadership and some of their fellow pilots at CMR.

Yep!

I just don't understand why there wasn't more attempt to change the union leadership for that stunt.

 

[Seggy]

Making things up?

Walk away while you're ahead.

Angry about the Raiders?

 

[derg]

Yep!

I just don't understand why there wasn't more attempt to change the union leadership for that stunt.

Just enough people who thought, "Well, this is absolutely wrong, but there may be an upside potential"

 

[derg]

Angry about the Raiders?

Tusken? They're real?

 

[Seggy]

Post three for folks who want to know why I used such strong words (to make it clear, those involved in the crafting of this letter at the time I am talking about) to describe those involved in what happened...

http://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/jc-lawson-resigning-from-comair-mec.56818/

 

[Blackhawk]

Just enough people who thought, "Well, this is absolutely wrong, but there may be an upside potential"

Unfortunately I also think a number of pilots were afraid to speak up. It's not that uncommon. In many situations you find the majority don't agree with a certain position but are afraid to speak up.
I try not to hold it against CMR pilots I fly with. Though ironically one of the pilots who gave me crap for being in "his seat" was a former CMR captain. I know I shouldn't have but my response was "Maybe you would be at Delta now and not worrying about who occupies the left seat of some crappy former Comair CRJ if you had given their pilots hiring preference and not require them to give up their seniority number after 9/11. You know- like we did at ASA." It was a tense cockpit the rest of the trip.

 

[ProudPilot]

Tusken? They're real?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

You name call off the bat but when I say something about your fellow coworkers who made a horrific decision in the mid 80's you give me some BS line that it was a long time ago and most are gone.

Seriously? He actually said this?

 

[Seggy]

Seriously? He actually said this?

No he didn't.

 

[Flying Saluki]

Unfortunately I also think a number of pilots were afraid to speak up. It's not that uncommon. In many situations you find the majority don't agree with a certain position but are afraid to speak up.
I try not to hold it against CMR pilots I fly with. Though ironically one of the pilots who gave me crap for being in "his seat" was a former CMR captain. I know I shouldn't have but my response was "Maybe you would be at Delta now and not worrying about who occupies the left seat of some crappy former Comair CRJ if you had given their pilots hiring preference and not require them to give up their seniority number after 9/11. You know- like we did at ASA." It was a tense cockpit the rest of the trip.

As a dispassionate observer several years removed from the situation, the following thoughts occur to me:

1) As a Comair employee, JC Lawson's obligation was to look after Comair's best interests
2) As MEC chair, JC Lawson's obligation was to look after Comair pilots' best interests
3) Delta MEC offered nothing tangible to Comair MEC; "Give us X now, and maybe you will get Y later"
4 It's assumed that a vague promise of preferential hiring in the nebulous future was somehow of benefit to Comair pilots.
5) Delta's MEC hopefully recognizes that the average Comair pilot had nothing to do with these talks and doesn't hold it against them.

Many remember the RJDC. Do you also remember the 3 month strike they took in an effort to raise the bar for their fellow pilots?

Talk among yourselves

 

[Seggy]

As a dispassionate observer several years removed from the situation, the following thoughts occur to me:

1) As a Comair employee, JC Lawson's obligation was to look after Comair's best interests

You need to look after your union brothers and sisters as well. How could this possibly hurt any of Comair's interests?

2) As MEC chair, JC Lawson's obligation was to look after Comair pilots' best interests

It would be in the best interest of the Comair Pilots to not piss off the Delta Pilots.

3) Delta MEC offered nothing tangible to Comair MEC; "Give us X now, and maybe you will get Y later"

The Delta MEC offered unimaginable resources when Comair went on strike only a handful of months earlier.

4 It's assumed that a vague promise of preferential hiring in the nebulous future was somehow of benefit to Comair pilots.

Is Comair still in business today? Is Delta?

5) Delta's MEC hopefully recognizes that the average Comair pilot had nothing to do with these talks and doesn't hold it against them.

That is true to a point. HOWEVER, Comair pilots at the time could have worked harder to recall the union leadership that put them in this mess. I think they were happy the MEC was pursing more 70 seat aircraft to be flown by Comair.

Many remember the RJDC. Do you also remember the 3 month strike they took in an effort to raise the bar for their fellow pilots?

Talk among yourselves

See above.

 

[Blackhawk]

As a dispassionate observer several years removed from the situation, the following thoughts occur to me:

1) As a Comair employee, JC Lawson's obligation was to look after Comair's best interests
2) As MEC chair, JC Lawson's obligation was to look after Comair pilots' best interests
3) Delta MEC offered nothing tangible to Comair MEC; "Give us X now, and maybe you will get Y later"
4 It's assumed that a vague promise of preferential hiring in the nebulous future was somehow of benefit to Comair pilots.
5) Delta's MEC hopefully recognizes that the average Comair pilot had nothing to do with these talks and doesn't hold it against them.

Many remember the RJDC. Do you also remember the 3 month strike they took in an effort to raise the bar for their fellow pilots?

Talk among yourselves

What goes around, comes around. Aviation is a small world. It would have cost Conair pilots.... nothing. Just as it cost ASA pilots.... nothing.
ASA MEC did not ask for anything in return from the DAL MEC. We just felt it was the right thing to do for pilots across the ramp, many of whom worked with us very recently, who had mortgages, spouses and kids.
The average Comair pilot stood aside and did nothing while the ASA group lent a hand without a thought for thanks. Because sometimes you just do the right thing.
Not to hold it against a Comair pilot, but if you were a DAL pilot who would you be more inclined to hire?

 

[amorris311]

No he didn't.

??????

 

[mastermags]

As a dispassionate observer several years removed from the situation, the following thoughts occur to me:

1) As a Comair employee, JC Lawson's obligation was to look after Comair's best interests
2) As MEC chair, JC Lawson's obligation was to look after Comair pilots' best interests
3) Delta MEC offered nothing tangible to Comair MEC; "Give us X now, and maybe you will get Y later"
4 It's assumed that a vague promise of preferential hiring in the nebulous future was somehow of benefit to Comair pilots.
5) Delta's MEC hopefully recognizes that the average Comair pilot had nothing to do with these talks and doesn't hold it against them.

Many remember the RJDC. Do you also remember the 3 month strike they took in an effort to raise the bar for their fellow pilots?

Talk among yourselves

1,2,3,4) It was the right thing to do. DAL pilots were on the street and CMR tried to leverage their misfortune for their own benefit.

5)The Delta MEC and every DAL pilot I've talked to has not forgotten Comair... neither has DAL management. I think some of these same Comair clowns who destroyed their relationship with Delta went on to destroy Comair pilots' shot at Spirit also. I've heard this from multiple Spirit pilots.

Be very careful who you appoint to be your representatives.

 

[Seggy]

I think some of these same Comair clowns who destroyed their relationship with Delta went on to destroy Comair pilots' shot at Spirit also. I've heard this from multiple Spirit pilots.

Interesting, what have you heard specifically?