Reno Air Races

Cal Goat

Cal Goat

Prestige Worldwide™
I love Rare Bear, but is it fair to assume that radials are no longer competitive with the Mustangs? Just curious if anyone had insight on the logic/strategy behind teams like Rare Bear and September Fury continuing to push the radial power when it hasn't won in years.

@Inverted ?
@trafficinsight ?
 
Cal Goat said:
I love Rare Bear, but is it fair to assume that radials are no longer competitive with the Mustangs? Just curious if anyone had insight on the logic/strategy behind teams like Rare Bear and September Fury continuing to push the radial power when it hasn't won in years.

@Inverted ?
@trafficinsight ?
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Because the technology in both is still the same, and Rare Bear had a good run. They just need a better aero package and more money.
 
Has nothing to do with technology (radial vs inline) and everything to do with the specific setups and capabilities of the individual teams and circumstance on any given day. Don't forget that Rare Bear cleaned Strega's clock during the late 80s before Strega turned around and returned the favor for most of the 90s.

Next year will be a completely different story, just like last year was.
 
Just thought I'd add some additional insight into how some of this works, in case folks don't know. There are some teams that are all out "race till it breaks" types, and others who have very methodically thought-out plans for manifold pressure settings and race strategies during the week.

These philosophies vary between owners, pilots, and crew chiefs.

I know one of the front runners is a "set the MP, don't change it, and see what it gets you -- all week" philosophy. Sometimes that philosophy has resulted in a win, sometimes a 2nd or 3rd place finish, and sometimes a DNF.

Another of the front-runners has an owner who is desperate to get a win, and in the past has directed pilot and crew chief to "bring home a win, or bring it back broken". So far, with this owner, that philosophy hasn't worked out well.

So, the bottom line is, it is easy to look at the races just in terms of machine, but there is a lot more going on the micro scale that has more to do with results on Sunday afternoon than the macro scale stuff.
 
Rare Bear took #1 beating Voodoo and Strega on Friday when I was there. Maybe they were saving their engines for Sunday?
 
Rare Bear has been behind for years. Finally, this year she showed some promise with a top speed on Fridays race of 496mph. Cooling has always been a big issue for the radial racers. Basically, it's a battle of cooling (radial) versus complexity (v12). If the Mustangs can hold it together, they are typically faster. If the radials can push the power higher because of cooler temps, they have a shot. Keep in mind we are usually talking 90 degree and above surface temps in Reno. This year, Stevie Hinton had to knock it off in VooDoo (P-51) due to an oil issue, apparently it landed with zero oil left in the engine. Strega took first, with the Bear and Dred behind respectively They are competitive, but I think it takes more power, more aerodynamics, and better atmospheric condition for the, to punch manifold pressures to where they need to be. Having liquid cooling is a huge advantage.
 
I will add, the race programs that the unlimited gold racers have are pretty Impressive. Most of the racers in the top 5 are pushing over 3,000 horsepower. The biggest advantage the Mustangs have is the ability to make aerodynamic mods, and not have to worry about sacrificing cooling efficiency. Rare bear has to work with what she's got for cooling. If you push more power you increase temps, if you decrease cooling area for aerodynamics, you increase temps. Certainly if you are starting out to build an unlimited racer, the technology has advanced I'm such a way that the Merlin can produce the horsepower needed to surpass the extra rows of cylinders that the R-3360 has
 
AIR RACES SHOULD BE BANNED!!!!!!


Just thought I'd get that ball rolling early, in this thread!


Your Welcome! :)
 
Inverted said:
Stevie Hinton had to knock it off in VooDoo (P-51) due to an oil issue, apparently it landed with zero oil left in the engine. Strega took first, with the Bear and Dred behind respectively They are competitive, but I think it takes more power, more aerodynamics, and better atmospheric condition for the, to punch manifold pressures to where they need to be. Having liquid cooling is a huge advantage.
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Here's what I heard via text from a guy on the Voodoo team:

"Detonation on the start. He ran it at a setting just below where it was happening, but it got progressively worse as the race went on, so they pulled out. Nothing damaged that I know about."

EDIT: Just followed up on the oil issue, and although they were chasing an issue with oil being blown out the breather (the vent up in the cowl for the oil system) most of race week, it was not the cause of the mayday and they had plenty when they landed Sunday.
 
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Thanks for the replies. I've always preferred radials and it's great to see them out there, I just was curious as to why the Merlins have been so dominant lately. At some point, there has to be that slight aerodynamic edge for the water cooled motors like @Inverted mentioned. But I can see how that might be negligible when compared to strategy like @Hacker15e said.
 
Realize there are also different wing designs between the different fighters, and the racers are going at mach numbers much higher than were originally envisioned.

The really fast Mustangs have all had their wings "reprofiled", e.g. had the upper surface shape changed via aerodynamic filler, to try and change the performance at the higher end of the Mach limit. Bear has also had two major airfoil modifications over the years, but the smart guys tell me that the Bearcat wing is more problematic at these speeds than the Mustang wing is.

Not an aerodynamicist, so I'm only going on what I've been told by guys like Pete Law.
 
Hacker15e said:
Here's what I heard via text from a guy on the Voodoo team:

"Detonation on the start. He ran it at a setting just below where it was happening, but it got progressively worse as the race went on, so they pulled out. Nothing damaged that I know about."
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My buddy works the telemetry for the team and said when he called the mayday there were no abnormal indications when he pulled off. Hearing some scuttle butt today has indicated that VooDoo streaked oil down her side.
 
Inverted said:
My buddy works the telemetry for the team and said when he called the mayday there were no abnormal indications when he pulled off. Hearing some scuttle butt today has indicated that VooDoo streaked oil down her side.
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Ah, you know the Luvaras, too?
 
Bear, VooDoo and Stregs have reshaped and recoiled and clipped wings. Among a laundry list of other aerodynamic mods.
 
Hacker15e said:
Awesome, great guys.
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Both Mike and Chris are a cut above. I can't say enough nice things about them. I really need go fly with them again....

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