application/interview timing

sbe

sbe

Well-Known Member
Possibly against my better judgement, I'm giving the flying thing a go. I have been on this forum forever, and used to be quite active in the 2002-2005 or 6 timeframe when I was actively pursuing ratings and wanted to...give the flying thing a go. I've decided to do it now while I have (relative) youth and the hiring picture is quite different. I own a photography studio. Which *was* quite successful but is a bit like squeezing blood from a turnip in recent years as the market is getting overly flooded - and a lot of "momtographers" who want to shoot as a side job and charge half (or less) of a livable wage. Although I've had a good run, it's time to move on.

That said, with my husband's full support, I'm gearing up to go fly. All I lack to meet hiring requirements is some multi time. That is being addressed this fall. I will meet all ATP mins by the holidays. I need to figure out WHERE to fly. But those two things aside, I'm stuck in a bit of a conundrum and that's the lack of a clean break from my current business. Until I figure this all out, I've stopped booking additional weddings for 2016. I have FOUR weddings booked. ONLY FOUR. And it's those four that are making me hold off on applying this winter once I am ready. I have two dates in May, one in June, and one August 6th. I am taking nothing else for now. This leads me to my question, because I have no knowledge of whether there's any way around this....am I stuck waiting for class until after August 6 since I won't control my schedule (obviously)? Of course, they're weddings, so they are on Saturdays. Passing them off to another photographer isn't an option. I'm obligated to photograph them. Signed contracts and retainers paid and all that. It's just killing me that I have to hold off for potentially another year, and lose all that seniority, over basically four days.

If I'm just screwed with no way of working these in and getting on earlier, I'll just have to continue booking until 8/6/16 so I have *some* income in the meantime. Why I couldn't have a "normal" job and give 2 weeks notice is beyond me. But no, it can't be that simple.

Thanks for any advice.

Sarah
 
Yup. Know all of that. It's just...frustrating, that I will be ready from a qualifications standpoint SO far ahead of when I will be available from a work standpoint (and over 4 dates). And I know if I spend too much time trying to decide which direction I want to head now, it will all change by then, as well...I guess I've just been listening to the partner in our plane (airline guy) too much, and his "seniority is everything" mantra as well as "you gotta do what you can to get on now, Sarah." I was all set in my head to just wait it out and he's really been pressing that lately - but what do I do about it?

So, the above being said, is it safe to interview earlier in the summer or even late spring and just defer when I am available for class due to these obligations (until after 8/6)? At this rate, I will have *plenty* of time to prepare myself...
 
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It might be worth it to give up those 4 weddings and pass them on to another colleague. Seniority is everything, and 8 months of seniority is a ton of numbers and at one of the more quickly growing regionals could be the difference between eternal reserve or being a line holder that can hold 3 weekends of the month off.

If you don't wish to pass on those clients, interviewing in May through July for a late August or Early September class date is standard, but at the regionals so is interviewing, and being in class the next week.
 
I would absolutely pass those four engagements off to another colleague. Sure, it sucks, but the reality is that at some point you'll need to make a transition and it won't be clean, smooth, or without a few bumps.

Regional hiring will continue for the foreseeable future. It just depends on which operators will still be in operation a few years down the road. Nevertheless, interviews will continue and you could theoretically just wait it out until next spring and go from there. I don't see any harm in that except missing some seniority numbers.
 
sbe said:
Yup. Know all of that. It's just...frustrating, that I will be ready from a qualifications standpoint SO far ahead of when I will be available from a work standpoint (and over 4 dates). And I know if I spend too much time trying to decide which direction I want to head now, it will all change by then, as well...I guess I've just been listening to the partner in our plane (airline guy) too much, and his "seniority is everything" mantra as well as "you gotta do what you can to get on now, Sarah." I was all set in my head to just wait it out and he's really been pressing that lately - but what do I do about it?

So, the above being said, is it safe to interview earlier in the summer or even late spring and just defer when I am available for class due to these obligations (until after 8/6)? At this rate, I will have *plenty* of time to prepare myself...
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Well, your friend is correct. Seniority IS everything.
 
Even if I had to pay for 4 weddings all over again, it wouldn't be worth passing up the seniority. My wife was a wedding planner facing the same issue prior to a swap in career paths years ago, facing the same type of conundrum you are facing. She made the swap and was open with her clients with full refunds. All 3 (ok, not your 4 like you have) kept with her and she established backups for them with a guaranteed cut and contingency plan if needed. It was the best move she made. She didn't go into aviation, but the same premise existed with schedule concerns.

A year later start date would have cost me well over $100K in earnings and about 4 years of being off holidays by my quick math.

If you want to swap careers, you must put both feet in the pool, just 1 won't work. It's especially true in aviation with a seniority system.
 
Thanks for the advice, guys. I'm going to do what I can to make this happen earlier after reading your responses. It just makes NO sense to sit around all winter - through what is my business' slow season anyways (I am lucky to have 2-3 weddings in a winter season where I live, this year I have none), and possibly have to do some part time work when I could be interviewing and at training during that stretch.
 
sbe said:
Thanks for the advice, guys. I'm going to do what I can to make this happen earlier after reading your responses. It just makes NO sense to sit around all winter - through what is my business' slow season anyways (I am lucky to have 2-3 weddings in a winter season where I live, this year I have none), and possibly have to do some part time work when I could be interviewing and at training during that stretch.
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I agree with this. Maybe get some backups lined up for the wedding shoots. You may well find that you have the days off.
This may actually be a business that can blend well with an airline career. Not only doing what you do on the side, but perhaps expanding into aviation photography. In addition, when you are hired keep your ears to the HR rail. You may hear of opportunities within your company.
 
Interview where you want to go ASAP. Talk to them about your scenario and see if they will guarantee those wedding weekends off, in writing.
 
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Blackhawk, yep - although weddings will not be something I can really continue due to my schedule and how far in advance they book, portrait sessions are usually booked with short notice and I have always shot them on weekdays mostly, they can be arranged around my work schedule when I am home. I've got a good number of families who are repeat clients and it will be nice to continue to accommodate them and earn some extra money as well.

I'm just glad I didn't continue to book for next year back when I figured I just had to wait it out - otherwise I might easily have twice as many weddings booked for next year at this point, which would be a lot more tricky of a situation.

Not only doing what you do on the side, but perhaps expanding into aviation photography. In addition, when you are hired keep your ears to the HR rail. You may hear of opportunities within your company.
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Thanks for the idea! I do have a small aviation portfolio. I've done some nice night and sunset ramp shots for a couple of companies/organizations here in town.

Thanks again for the advice!

Sarah
 
Now the next step is figuring out where I am headed. I have a short list, definitely, but some big question marks to figure out. Time to buckle down and get this ball rolling. Thanks guys.
 
sbe said:
Now the next step is figuring out where I am headed. I have a short list, definitely, but some big question marks to figure out. Time to buckle down and get this ball rolling. Thanks guys.
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There are plenty of people here with advice on where to aim your search. I recommend somewhere that is rapidly expanding so you can get quality time quickly, and get out. That may mean less pay early-on, but remember it's a marathon, not a sprint. You want to get to a higher paying job as quickly as possible, and going somewhere with a lengthy upgrade will slow you down.

If I may ask, how long do you have before mandatory retirement age?
 
If I may ask, how long do you have before mandatory retirement age?
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24 years. Still a bit but not as much as a lot of you.

Right now my probable #1 choice has a (decent, and even driveable) commute and presently has pretty short time to upgrade, and a couple of guys I know there are pretty happy. Unfortunately the airline that has a (pretty junior) base here at home is a bit of a mess right now and a lengthier time to upgrade, definitely. That would be the one being discussed quite a bit presently in a post that's right next to mine :)
 
Which is probably why I keep flip flopping all around on my "list" - I'm trying to weigh which considerations are most important. I do realize upgrade times can and do change at the drop of a hat.
 
The thing to do is to figure out those things that are most important to you. Maybe make a decision matrix.
Unfortunately what I often see on this board and others is people giving advice based upon their own priorities in life. That is great if your priorities align with theirs, not so great if they are different.
You are doing the right thing by researching. Try to talk to people from regionals you are interested in. Both senior and junior pilots. I will probably have a very different perspective on my airline than some of the junior pilots, especially those who are looking to move on as quickly as possible. Try to get feedback from people at those airlines whose priorities closely match yours.
Then understand that much of what happens from there will be dumb luck. I did not get a job offer from my first choice regional. That airline went under while my wife was in medical school (we lived in KC then, BTW). That would have been rather traumatic and probably would have jaundiced my view on the airline industry.
 
If you want to fly airplanes, fly airplanes.

sbe said:
Which is probably why I keep flip flopping all around on my "list" - I'm trying to weigh which considerations are most important. I do realize upgrade times can and do change at the drop of a hat.
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Upgrade time is true ONLY for the guy/gal entering upgrade class on that date, and might not even be true then (when the VPFO walks in and says "class cancelled"...)
 
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I struggled with the issue of leaving my last job early for the airlines, but I was told the same thing. "Seniority is everything." This is about as true as it gets. I got awarded a domicile I wanted right out of training and before transfers got stagnant hopefully only for the next few months, but still it made all the difference in me spending more time at home rather than commuting. Furthermore, I already have over 350 people below me on the seniority list, and I was hired 5 months ago. Literally every month counts, and when the music stops (Which I don't see happening for the foreseeable future, but you never know), where do you want to be in your career?
 
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