As I'm ready to retire, I need to ask/vent

[RetiredATLATC]

I still don't see what you mean.

If I got either clearance from you, I'd be going into the box and deleting the speed restriction at STYLS, which means the plane will speed up at 10k unless there's a speed restriction at a later fix.

The key word is "at" STYLS. I don't want you to wait until "at" STYLS to delete the speed and when it's readbacks " delete the speed AT STYLS" my assumption is you won't delete the speed until "at" STYLS.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

The key word is "at" STYLS. I don't want you to wait until "at" STYLS to delete the speed and when it's readbacks " delete the speed AT STYLS" my assumption is you won't delete the speed until "at" STYLS.

Yeah, heads up, pilots don't see it that way, because no FMS works that way. Either way you say it, the speed restriction is getting deleted from the box, and it will automatically start speeding up at 10k.

 

[DhruvK]

"Leaving 10,000 delete speeds" or "Leaving 10,000 speed your discretion" wouldn't accomplish the same thing?

 

[FM_Weasel]

Probably a SWAhole.

You know how you see a word in print, but never hear it spoken, and so you're afraid to use it and sound silly? I want to verify that this is pronounced "SWAY-hole" so I can start working it into my personal lexicon.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

You know how you see a word in print, but never hear it spoken, and so you're afraid to use it and sound silly? I want to verify that this is pronounced "SWAY-hole" so I can start working it into my personal lexicon.

I'm honestly not sure. I've only ever typed it.

 

[poser765]

The key word is "at" STYLS. I don't want you to wait until "at" STYLS to delete the speed and when it's readbacks " delete the speed AT STYLS" my assumption is you won't delete the speed until "at" STYLS.

I can't speak for my winged comrades but when you say delete the speed at TITTS to ME that means delete the speed that begins at TITTS. Chances are i'm not slowing down for a speed restriction until I absolutely have to.

So when you tell be to delete that speed...I am slamming into TITTS as fast as I can go and will have been at that speed for a while.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I, after 33 Years as an ATC at only the highest facilities with the US FAA, would like to ask both GA and professional pilots;

within 40 miles, or even contacting the tower, within the busiest airspace the world

a) why do you check on saying "Center" this also happens on the downwind to ATL. Is your lack of area awareness that bad? This also happens on the final to ATL. CENTER could NOT do what we do....and it's akin to us calling you a different airline.

B) not check on with the ATIS
and then get pissy/suprised when the runway is different than the settings you put in long prior to actually talking to me. Key fact: the users wanted to build 10/28, not us. So when you're assigned it don't sound as if I just murdered your dog.

C) when you're 2.5 mile from the localizer ( again within 10 miles of the busiest airport in the world) do you either ignore the clearance or say "say again" and blow through the final. how freaking dangerous is that? Listen up!

D) tell me, Within 10 miles of ATL, that my clearance was blocked by Guard. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, you don't always have to be listening to Guard; especially when you listening to it will have you fly through a localizer and have a separation error or pilot deviation. Save it for taxiing around Hartsfield. It's commonly known as Delta clearance and interferes ALL DAY LONG on the TRACON/CENTER/TOWER side of it. Pay atrention!

E) read back 180kts to AJAYY, then when your 6 miles outside AJAYY you tell me your speed is 155 and slowing. WTF! Pilot deviation, go around.

F) When I tell you cancel STYLS speed, you tell me cancel the speed at STYLS (wrong because that's expected) or cancel STYLS (well wouldn't that be dangerous if you started cancelling fixes) just read the damn thing back EXACTLY as it was said to you. Pilot readbacks are at the best lackluster and nonchalant. You're NOT the only ones flying around ATL and I can't read your mind.

G) when I switch you, talk to you etc use your damn call sign. I'm not a mind reader and haven't memorized voices. It happens more so with GA but within the past few years the majors have, again become lackluster.

I'm old, I'm tired, and I just once, for one day would love to have everyone act professionally.

Love

CJ

Fireball time on my one day off this week, stick that in your TA ( 4 days off a month)

Hey bud. Thanks for working so hard to make the airspace thingy that I use work so well. I try and do my best but sometimes there is a ton going on where I am sitting and I mess up the radios. And in case you haven't noticed things really are getting worse as time goes on. I mean everything is getting dumber by the day, why should aviation be any different.

Just praise Allah that you are not working ATC in the year 2505:

 

[RobertB]

"Leaving 10,000 delete speeds" or "Leaving 10,000 speed your discretion" wouldn't accomplish the same thing?

If some says,"...leaving 10,000 delete the speed," what altitude are you climbing to when the top of your clearance is 10,000?

 

[genot]

You know how you see a word in print, but never hear it spoken, and so you're afraid to use it and sound silly? I want to verify that this is pronounced "SWAY-hole" so I can start working it into my personal lexicon.

Its pronounced I just cleared Southwest for the visual. In the relief briefing this will be followed by whatever speed assignment you assigned that is currently being ignored. If you truly want to sound silly brief your relief that you cleared south west from the downwind.

 

[RetiredATLATC]

Its pronounced I just cleared Southwest for the visual. In the relief briefing this will be followed by whatever speed assignment you assigned that is currently being ignored. If you truly want to sound silly brief your relief that you cleared south west from the downwind.

I see a 15+ mile final at a very slow speed (throws crystal ball to the floor - peace out)

 

[Bernoulli Fan]

"Leaving 10,000 delete speeds" or "Leaving 10,000 speed your discretion" wouldn't accomplish the same thing?

Yeah, heads up, pilots don't see it that way, because no FMS works that way. Either way you say it, the speed restriction is getting deleted from the box, and it will automatically start speeding up at 10k.

The phraseology is fairly new in the 7110.65, but it seems the correct way would be to say "Delete STYLS speed restriction" for the first case (you can go fast now) and "After STYLS delete speed restrictions" for the second case.

This is probably good because it eliminates the confusion over whether "at STYLS" means 1)the numbers printed on the departure/arrival chart next to the depiction of STYLS intersection; or 2)when the aircraft is over STYLS.

Unfortunately, controllers have been slow to adopt the "delete" phraseology in my area, especially because foreign pilots seem to have a hard time understanding it, so most still just use "resume normal speed" at the appropriate time.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

The phraseology is fairly new in the 7110.65, but it seems the correct way would be to say "Delete STYLS speed restriction" for the first case (you can go fast now) and "After STYLS delete speed restrictions" for the second case.

That makes sense. Both of those are easy to understand.

 

[spades9048]

Calling you center is the first gripe on your list? I've gotten called approach, Nashville Center, other centers, etc. I'm not really being an ahole here but seriously, out of all the things that would make my list, being called a different facility would make the list only if I had a list of 5,000 to begin with.

Maybe it's just me but every now and then I call a Skywest a Southwest. I'd laugh if I found out they got mad.

 

[adk]

a) why do you check on saying "Center" this also happens on the downwind to ATL. Is your lack of area awareness that bad? This also happens on the final to ATL. CENTER could NOT do what we do....and it's akin to us calling you a different airline.

And when you call an Air Shuttle an Acey, they probably say "was that for us?" instead of getting upset. Sometimes we're on the fourth leg of the day by 11:00 AM. We're tired and want to go home. Calling you the correct title is not high on our priority list.

B) not check on with the ATIS
and then get pissy/suprised when the runway is different than the settings you put in long prior to actually talking to me. Key fact: the users wanted to build 10/28, not us. So when you're assigned it don't sound as if I just murdered your dog.

Murdering their commute, while not your fault, is arguably just as bad as murdering their dog some days.

C) when you're 2.5 mile from the localizer ( again within 10 miles of the busiest airport in the world) do you either ignore the clearance or say "say again" and blow through the final. how freaking dangerous is that? Listen up!

We have no control over when the airplane starts chirping at us.

D) tell me, Within 10 miles of ATL, that my clearance was blocked by Guard. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, you don't always have to be listening to Guard; especially when you listening to it will have you fly through a localizer and have a separation error or pilot deviation. Save it for taxiing around Hartsfield. It's commonly known as Delta clearance and interferes ALL DAY LONG on the TRACON/CENTER/TOWER side of it. Pay atrention!

The PRM monitor, which we do have to listen to, is arguably worse than guard.

E) read back 180kts to AJAYY, then when your 6 miles outside AJAYY you tell me your speed is 155 and slowing. WTF! Pilot deviation, go around.

Valid complaint.

F) When I tell you cancel STYLS speed, you tell me cancel the speed at STYLS (wrong because that's expected) or cancel STYLS (well wouldn't that be dangerous if you started cancelling fixes) just read the damn thing back EXACTLY as it was said to you. Pilot readbacks are at the best lackluster and nonchalant. You're NOT the only ones flying around ATL and I can't read your mind.

As others have already stated, "delete speed restriction" is becoming the norm whether correct or not.

G) when I switch you, talk to you etc use your damn call sign. I'm not a mind reader and haven't memorized voices. It happens more so with GA but within the past few years the majors have, again become lackluster.

Second valid complaint. If it makes you feel better, the Airways guys in Charlotte are hands down the worst about this.

 

[TripSix]

Again, gotta be a SWAhole. No one else is flying around that slow on purpose.

I think you would be absolutely shocked to learn just how many air carrier pilots will slow down for no apparent reason (and yes, I know it's their right to do so and they don't have to tell me) unless you issue a speed.

If I could make it through one single shift without shifting the conga line around the ONE GUY who just slowed to 190kts 40 miles from the airport I'd be happy.

It's extra cute when the response to my "say airspeed," isn't a number but instead a "what do you need?"

 

[RetiredATLATC]

As others have already stated, "delete speed restriction" is becoming the norm whether correct or not.

That's super, if there's only one speed restriction. On the SID, we have two and that's why it's necessary to specify which one I want deleted, because I definitely don't want the first one deleted.

Murdering their commute, while not your fault, is arguably just as bad as murdering their dog some days.

You should sit on 285 on a Sunday (when it's your Friday) for 2+ every weekend to go 15 miles.

I can't tell what's worse, pilots who slow or the GADOT

 

[RetiredATLATC]

but it seems the correct way would be to say "Delete STYLS speed restriction" for the first case (you can go fast now) and "After STYLS delete speed restrictions" for the second case.

"Delete STYLS speed restriction" IS how I say it, my complaint and at this point I could give a ratsyouknowwhat, is the readback of "delete speed AT STYLS". I don't want you to delete the speed AT the fix (which is what the SID has you do anyway) I want you to delete the speed immediately after reaching 10.

I won't even get started with the readbacks of "delete STYLS" which would be somewhat castatrophic potentially as you delete part of the SID.

Please just read it back AS its stated to you. Our 7110.65 is very specific on how we are supposed to say things, and there's a reason we give instructions in the order, sequence etc.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

"Delete STYLS speed restriction" IS how I say it, my complaint and at this point I could give a ratsyouknowwhat, is the readback of "delete speed AT STYLS". I don't want you to delete the speed AT the fix (which is what the SID has you do anyway) I want you to delete the speed immediately after reaching 10.

Again, you have to understand it from the view of the pilot, who is using a box to control the airplane. "Delete the speed at STYLS" is a perfect description of what he's doing and what you want him to do. He's going into the FMS and deleting the speed restriction next to the STYLS fix. This will cause the airplane to speed up at 10k, just like you want.

Sorry, but you're getting bent out of shape for nothing on this one.

 

[RetiredATLATC]

Again, you have to understand it from the view of the pilot, who is using a box to control the airplane. "Delete the speed at STYLS" is a perfect description of what he's doing and what you want him to do. He's going into the FMS and deleting the speed restriction next to the STYLS fix. This will cause the airplane to speed up at 10k, just like you want.

Sorry, but you're getting bent out of shape for nothing on this one.

Not really getting bent out of shape and if that's the way it's coming across, I do apologize. I guess the issue is not so much with what the pilot is doing with the FMS, ( and 99% of the time even when read back incorrectly i kinda know what the pilot meant) but the readback isn't correct, which then calls into question whether your waiting until the fix, once leveling at 10 etc

Doesn't really matter at the end of the day, I've done my 30+years. You can have your NETGEN. I'll be up in Ellijay (after a 28 month stint in Baghdad) enjoying the peace and quiet.

 

[derg]

I know people are going to throw stale croissants at me for suggesting this but, "free speed at XXX" works pretty well in Europe.

*runs*