Ameriflight
- Thread starter Shiner
- Start date
z987k
Well-Known Member
Well when your company takes all the advances in safety written in blood we've had in the past 50 years and craps on them all, you're bound to have a high rate of incidents and accidents. Last I checked unlicensed Alaskan pilots have a better safety record than AMF.
If you look, historically, I think they're already overdue for another fatal, so thankfully this one wasn't.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
IIRC, it is mostly out and backs. But I never flew there, even after expressing a desire to go there to the company. Also haven't been with AMF for about 8 months, so take that for what it's worth.
Riolasvacasboy
Active Member
We fly the same routes as the previous contractor. 8 Chieftains and 5 BE99s and half the runs are out and back. 5 days a week, home every night. I start Mon at 2pm and finish By Fri at noon. Good maintenance, good mgmt, cheerful group of pilots and mostly VFR operation with 300 days of no clouds.
A150K
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info. I plan to call back tomorrow and schedule an interview. I've been looking for a way back to NM, so this seems like a decent opportunity.
FreightDogs
Well-Known Member
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
Meh, it has and always starts with the ACP... A lot still falls on the training department and maintenance, but at the very least, adherence to the SOP(which prevents most issues) falls on the ACP. I've flown under some crap ACPs/training captains/maintenance in my short time here, so I'm well aware IMO. Ultimately, the ACP sets the tone for the base, as much as anyone else would like to take credit for it, but it's true. The pilots have always controlled this company and it's the ACP they are following. What cracks me up A LOT, in a cynical way, is when I see management/training positions offered to obvious idiots. I mean, my background(outside of aviation) isn't perfect, but how does one not smell blatant AWFUL judgement in the present? I can smell awful judgement from 17 miles away! There's tons of people I think are cool to party with, but they are awful pilots and would poison everyone they managed if offered something like that.
My predecessor had to deal with the biggest dumbasses I've EVER seen in aviation. The epitome of dumbass "it's only freight" mentality. They were dumbasses ONLY because the previous supervision were dumbasses. Some of that still almost hung around, but being a dick about things goes a long way. I've gotten everyone to wear the full uniform WITH the tie here now. Even more of a dick!
Fancy new titles and departments are great and all in the eyes of the insurance company/FAA and certainly prevent further issues. We do have ASAP now. Whether or not that prevents a pilot from losing their job has yet to be determined but the information is at least shared with the training department and pilot group. That is a pretty huge step vs what it used to be. "Oh a 99 tipped over", my response was always "Hey, what the hell did it take for that to happen?????", with no answer or input other than, "that guy was obviously a dumbass". "Alright, go fist yourself with razorwire" is what would go through my head while continuing to be MASSIVELY paranoid about "centerloading" a 99 in Lubbock with a Texas Tech linebacker in the tail...
Last edited:
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
A lot of the fatal accidents were just guys doing stupid things such as buzzing friends. AMF wouldn't have as bad of a safety record if everyone flew as if they had people on board instead of cargo.
Sadly it is hard to control what someone will do once they are on their own. Even with proper training there will be idiots out there. It happens in 121 as well.
I was in ground school recently where all the CAs (mostly check airmen) were laughing and joking about the simple customer service stuff the company wanted us to do. I can see that being how a lot of 135 cargo guys would act to safety videos and even how 121 guys in the past had as well. Sadly 135 cargo is 20+ years behind the 121 safety culture.
Right before I left it looked like the new CP was starting to implement more of a 121 mentality of safety but I have no idea how far he has been able to get with that.
Last edited:
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
Almost had that happen once. DHL, against company policy, would pre-load our aircraft. I had to run to the plane as I saw two big guys in the back loading everything in the tail.
"But the sign says it can hold 1600lbs at the door" was the answer I got from the supervisor. They seriously wanted to load something like 2000 lbs of stuff in the back half of the airplane and didn't understand the main landing gear would act like a hinge on a seesaw.
I had complained about them pre-loading the plane only to get a call from my ACP saying that "They have always done it that way". Never mind the fact it is specifically stated in the SOPs that we need to do a security check prior to loading along with supervising the loading process. My punishment for doing things the right way was to show an hour earlier then normal only to never have them load me early ever again.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
100% of all pilot error accidents are people doing stupid things. Happens everywhere but there is a huge lack of oversight at AMF and other freight companies. I don't think it's possible to implement a 121 safety culture within the 135 industry. Hell the 121 safety culture isn't even fully applied to 121 freight....
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
Indeed, USA Jet, for example, makes 135 freight flying look pretty angelic!
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Not a chance. Having worked for both, I can tell you the crap I dealt with at AMF was worse, by far.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
@UAL747400
Having an ASAP is absolutely useless if there is fear of being fired. That's not even in the thought process at other companies. In fact there are rewards and gifts awarded monthly to the most helpful submission. I'm not sure if you are just saying that there's a fear because you guys haven't experienced an ASAP program before but if those concerns come from a legitimate place/source then the culture is lightyears away from changing, and it defeats the entire purpose of the program.
Having an ASAP is absolutely useless if there is fear of being fired. That's not even in the thought process at other companies. In fact there are rewards and gifts awarded monthly to the most helpful submission. I'm not sure if you are just saying that there's a fear because you guys haven't experienced an ASAP program before but if those concerns come from a legitimate place/source then the culture is lightyears away from changing, and it defeats the entire purpose of the program.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
Of course. But there is a difference when someone puts themselves in a stupid position on purpose. For whatever reason the NTSB's site isn't being very nice but I am talking about guys buzzing their friends or taking an excursion to take photos at low altitude in mountainous terrain. Pretty sure I found several of those types of accidents. Most fatals are just your typical "pilot error" though.
The machoism displayed in training for years (decades perhaps?) certainly didn't help anything.
I think one of the only few shops where it is possible is your current place of work and similar. This is mainly because you have a union to help oversee a lot of the safety implementations rather than having someone like our favorite friend from OAK oversee everything. The rest of the 135 world really has no way to implement a 121 safety structure.
Can't say I didn't warn you about a certain base
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
They don't even meet the FAA standards for a proper ASAP program.
AC 120-66B said:
What representation does the AMF employee group have?
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Management?
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
In recent "discussions" on FB with certain personnel I can tell you that the macho mentality is alive and well. I still don't understand where the egos come from.
As far as the ASAP program, it works really well where I work is because it's run like an airline. You can't have 700 aircraft on the roster and operate like a mom and pop charter outfit. We've implemented so many 121 programs, policies and procedures, I wouldn't be surprised if we adopt .117 at some point.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
They are considered "the certificate holder" I would imagine.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Possibly, I just wonder in this situation if the company is the certificate holder, and management is the representation. I dunno, maybe they don't have an actual ASAP, just something "like" an ASAP.