Stowaway found dead after falling from British Airways plane

[FM_Weasel]

You can feel sorry for someone's circumstances and still not consider them a "victim" when they fall to their death as a result of a decision that they made.

Ok, but this particular line of comments started in response to someone stating they had NO sympathy for someone who has died, and you liked that post.

I never asked anyone to assess the deceased's intelligence. I just don't understand the rush to proclaim your disregard for the value of human life (which is what such outspoken lack of sympathy really is, not whatever made-up intent you think it is just because you're defensive now that someone has called them out).

It's like you're aware that there is a rational and interesting discussion to have about people who make poor choices but instead you'd rather go with the "stupid dead guy, who cares" angle and announce to the world that you're a stone-cold psychopath. Then, you want to pretend that people who find your view to be abhorrent are somehow trying to defend reckless activity, or are, themselves, offended by your statement. No, I was not offended. I'm just telling you I think your feelings on this matter are despicable.

Do I need to paste dictionary.com references to call out people who proudly exclaim their lack of sympathy for people who die, or can we just agree to disagree?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Ok, but this particular line of comments started in response to someone stating they had NO sympathy for someone who has died, and you liked that post.

We're talking about two different issues:

1. His death after falling from an airplane; and

2. His circumstances in life

I have zero sympathy for the the former, but do have sympathy for the latter. Millions upon millions of people are living through those awful circumstances, and I sympathize with all of them. But only two of them jumped onto an airplane's landing gear. I have no sympathy for the predictable result of that stupid decision, anymore than I have sympathy for someone who goes to jail when he steals from someone and claims that his reason for doing so was poverty.

I'm just telling you I think your feelings on this matter are despicable.

That's okay. I'm not offended.

 

[dustoff17]

What the *I don't have the education to emote without using a curse word* is wrong with you?

THIS is your issue and only you can deal with this one. As for me, I subscribe to the previous posts wherein a person is responsible for their own actions. If those actions are beyond that of a reasonable person’s and said actions result in the offender’s death, then so be it.

For me it was October 5th, 2008 in Al Anbar, Iraq.
Don't confuse my lack of sympathy for some people for a complete lack of compassion.

I don’t profess to know your experiences but thank you for this comment. I find it interesting the perspective of those that have never (nor will ever) experience these defining moments. They will go to sleep never knowing what we know.

Ok, but this particular line of comments started in response to someone stating they had NO sympathy for someone who has died, and you liked that post……...

You have taken this out of context. Next time I will try to be clearer when expressing my opinion. Let me restate my original post:

No sympathy for any person that makes any decision that clearly would result in his death. This guy can hardly be considered a "victim".
Tragic for the owner of the building he hit. Dragging wet snow off ones' roof and cleaning leaves out of the gutters is bad enough.

…….Do I need to paste dictionary.com references to call out people who proudly exclaim their lack of sympathy for people who die, or can we just agree to disagree?

You can if you wish but again, you have taken my comment out of context. I did not and have not stated that I had “no sympathy for people who die”. I stated that in this particular situation, in this particular case, I have no sympathy for THIS, single, individual person that chose to commit suicide and lost against the odds by tucking himself into a wheel well of an airplane
The only victim (even by definition) is the person that owns the building he hit.......

 

[ppragman]

Listen kids.
When a stove is hot, you don't put your hand on it.
You don't run with scissors.
If you stowaway in the gear of a 747, your probably going to die.

Why are we required to have sympathy for these Darwin Award winners?

Get off your high and mighty horse. People die every day for doing stupid things. This is a prime example.

Life isn't precious. It's a commodity.

I've known you for a long time, in fact, I think we may have even had discussions (over much Labatt's) about this sort of thing in the past, I respectfully disagree. I learned that all life was precious on the day my son was born.

 

[Nark]

I've known you for a long time, in fact, I think we may have even had discussions (over much Labatt's) about this sort of thing in the past, I respectfully disagree. I learned that all life was precious on the day my son was born.

I think was over Stoly in Haines!

But that's the great thing about our friendship, is that we have a respect for our differing opinions.
But please understand, that I don't think all life is invaluable. Some people need to leave this planet, and if you facilitate your own demise, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
However I do get quite worked up when an innocent person is killed, for no other reason than being in the wrong place.

 

[FM_Weasel]

We're talking about two different issues:

1. His death after falling from an airplane; and

2. His circumstances in life

I have zero sympathy for the the forme

You are a psychopath and I understand why you do not care.

 

[FM_Weasel]

You have taken this out of context. Next time I will try to be clearer when expressing my opinion. Let me restate my original post:

What context? It's literally the first thing you posted in reply to this article. You don't have sympathy for this person that died. That's despicable.

 

[Nark]

What context? It's literally the first thing you posted in reply to this article. You don't have sympathy for this person that died. That's despicable.

What are you not understanding? Mr @dustoff17 explained himself quite well.

If you think he(we) are deplorable, well, I hope you sleep well at night.

 

[Boris Badenov]

You are a psychopath

And you're a psychiatrist!

 

[Plata]

You are a psychopath and I understand why you do not care.

It's probably best for all parties to avoid labeling members of the JC community. It's very easy to miscommunicate on the inter-webs, and we don't want this forum to devolve into the acrimony that one can find on other pilot forums. PMs can be an effective way to share one's strong opinions or explore differences in opinion.

 

[deadstick]

I suppose I feel an abstract twinge of sympathy...

You? Are you sure it isn't food poisoning?

And you're a psychiatrist!

Psychopath...psychiatrist....same thing, really. Most people I know who are mental health professionals are more dire need of some mental health treatment than their patients.

 

[derg]

Like if I lived in Northern Mexico, you bet your sweet ass I'd be getting chased by @MikeD out there in the desert making my way north!

 

[Runincolorado]

You know though, there are people that have survived the wheel well ordeal. Yes many people do die from it each and every year (including the US where if I remember correctly, a teenager fell out of an USAirways...err American...flight over Charlotte NC). But if you are that desperate to escape your location, you might just play the odds. Not way I would ever want to go that way, but it is easy to say sitting in the comfort of my life vs theirs.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Millions upon millions living in identical circumstances don't jump on a landing gear. A tiny handful do. Natural selection at work.

 

[A Life Aloft]

Thousands upon thousands of people lose their lives trying to immigrate illegally into other countries each year, with little to no resources. Some are lost/die in deserts, mountain ranges, trying to escape by rail, trying to escape by boat or raft on rivers and on the open sea, some are murdered, die of thirst, are fatally injured from an accident along the journey, drown, die of hypothermia or heat stroke, are attacked by wild animals, die of starvation, some are robbed/beaten and left for dead, some are abducted, some are abandoned by those who promised to smuggle them, some are sold into sex trafficking, a number of ways, really. The vast majority of those trying to immigrate illegally, do so by means of what most people would call/label as very high risk, extremely dangerous, reckless and even doomed for failure.


The stats just for Europe, for example:
Eight migrants die every day trying to reach richer countries, study reveals
Research into migrant deaths in Europe shows 22,000 missing, presumed dead, in past 14 years – more than half the global total.

Migrants trying to reach more prosperous countries have died at a rate of eight every day for the past 14 years, the majority of them trying to get to Europe, according to the most comprehensive ever tally of migrant deaths. http://www.theguardian.com/global-d.../europe-deadliest-destination-migrants-report

More than 1,750 migrants perished in the Mediterranean alone, since the start of the year - more than 30 times higher than during the same period of 2014, says the International Organization for Migration.

Every day, all over the world, people make the most difficult decision of their lives; to leave their homes in search of a better life.

Throughout history, migration has been a fact of life. The reasons people migrate are varied and often complex. Some people move to new countries to improve their economic situation or to pursue their education. Others leave their countries to escape human rights abuses, such as torture, persecution, armed conflict, extreme poverty and even death.

Their journey can be full of danger and fear. Some face detention when they arrive. Many face daily racism, xenophobia, and discrimination. They are uniquely vulnerable, without the usual support structures most of us take for granted.

This is just the story of some who try to migrate to Italy for example:

http://odyssey.antiochsb.edu/student-profiles/the-dark-underworld-of-the-migration-crisis/

Closer to home, more than 6,000 immigrants have died crossing our southern borders since 1998, according to federal records, and hundreds of them have never been identified.

 

[dustoff17]

"MAKE REASONABLE CHOICES!!"

 

[MikeD]

.

Here's one I had from just the other night. Get a call for a 911 received, phase 1 coordinates, 3 guys lost in desert, Salvadorans. Heat exhausted, out of water for 2 days, no food, cellphone dying.

Get to the general area in our helo and easy to find: they had lit a fire that got rapidly out of control due to the extreme high temps and extreme low humidity. Fire was about 4 acres and rapidly expanding. Arriving overhead the scene, it gets worse. They had attempted to run, but collapsed..exhausted...ahead of the advancing flame front, downwind of the fire. Only happened to spot them under the NVGs. So had to land about 1/4 mile away in the only area we wouldn't strike the tail rotor on the ground, to where the pilot discharged me from the bird. Hightailed it with my medical bag across the dark and rocky ground and area to the fire, arriving at the same time a ground USBP agent did, with the fire now about 10 yards from these guys and advancing. I did some basic wildland suppression work just to buy some time, as we gathered these guys and carried/dragged/walked them out of there and away from the fire, and evac'd them via ground for medical treatment for numerous external and internal injuries.

Those guys were not too long from providing the mountain lions and coyotes a nice hot dinner for the night.

But hey.....we're all just jackboot thugs in a uniform.

 

[A Life Aloft]

Said it before and I will keep saying it..........Mike, you truly are a remarkable and honorable man. If only this world had more like you in it. Heart of a warrior, soul of a saint.

Well done, sir.

 

[Bob Ridpath]

I agree. I'd also suggest there are many like him, at least in emergency services (tho' a bunch more wouldn't be a bad thing at all). Kudos for a job well-done, Mike, in the line of duty.

 

[MikeD]

Said it before and I will keep saying it..........Mike, you truly are a remarkable and honorable man. If only this world had more like you in it.

Well done, sir.

Most of this stuff...darn near daily/weekly occurances....doesn't make the news. Just goes in an official report that gets filed away in the government bureaucracy.

See what tonight has to offer.

A few things:

1. Being at the scene of a fire, with only law enforcement and medical gear; and none of my firefighting gear or vehicle......sucks. A very naked feeling.

2. Tucson BP Air, Tactical Medical Ops. This is just what we do. Just our job.