The Pilot Shortage -Managements Fault?

[🦈💜]

I'll go next,
I'm leaving my job in the near future to make approximately 22K a year at a regional.

Me too, if I can. Though I'm not sure if I'll make nearly that much.

-Fox

 

[🦈💜]

I've never left a job for one without a better pay scale.

My current job pays less than a third of what my previous job paid. My next job will likely pay less than half of what my current job pays.

HALP IM DOING IT WRONG

-Fox

 

[jtrain609]

I see-saw on this...I was the shiny eyed, SJS infected kid back in 2006 when I got out of the Army at the ripe old age of 22 after doing my 4 years. Hindsight being 20/20, I would have not gotten married just then, and done my flight training while I could afford to live on Ramen, then gotten in with the other load of 250 hour wet commercials that everyone was hiring. Now however, I have 2 little mouths to feed, and have a very stable salary that blows even a 3rd or 4th year FFD FO's pay out of the water. Yet I still have the yearning to fly 121.

Life situation what it is now, I literally cannot afford to go fly 121 regional stuff. Hell, I make more doing aerial survey then a 2nd year FO per hour for a p/t gig...kind of a golden handcuffs problem.

That said, it will be interesting to see what happens with FFD carriers when there are no more bodies that have the 1500 hours. Yet more carve outs? Pay doesn't seem to be improving, not much left after that.

By the time you get to 3rd year pay you can clear an easy $50,000 as an FO at a regional.

If you upgrade, by the time you're on 5th year captain pay it's probably closer to $80,000.

Do you have any possibility of further upward mobility with what you do?

 

[ozziecat35]

By the time you get to 3rd year pay you can clear an easy $50,000 as an FO at a regional.

If you upgrade, by the time you're on 5th year captain pay it's probably closer to $80,000.

Do you have any possibility of further upward mobility with what you do?

That's the thing, doing IT at a National Lab has weird corporate ladders. My section manager is actually a Nuclear Physicist...who helps "herd the cats"....in this case the 5 IT people in our division are the cats...because left to our devices none of us would know how to communicate with management...lol

So no real upward mobility, but work life balance is the dogs bollocks, and benefits overall help lock down the golden handcuffs I alluded to earlier. I know I won't be here forever, for the sole fact that I still look up when I hear a plane overhead. Having the part time aerial survey gig is helpful too, but I can't sit in front of a computer my whole life. I'll be 32 in 2 months, so I still have some years in front of me.

 

[Blackhawk]

In almost every case I can think of when you move to a different industry you take a pay cut.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

My current job pays less than a third of what my previous job paid. My next job will likely pay less than half of what my current job pays.

HALP IM DOING IT WRONG

-Fox

Repeat after me:

I want MOAR money right MEOW!

 

[jtrain609]

That's the thing, doing IT at a National Lab has weird corporate ladders. My section manager is actually a Nuclear Physicist...who helps "herd the cats"....in this case the 5 IT people in our division are the cats...because left to our devices none of us would know how to communicate with management...lol

So no real upward mobility, but work life balance is the dogs bollocks, and benefits overall help lock down the golden handcuffs I alluded to earlier. I know I won't be here forever, for the sole fact that I still look up when I hear a plane overhead. Having the part time aerial survey gig is helpful too, but I can't sit in front of a computer my whole life. I'll be 32 in 2 months, so I still have some years in front of me.

You've got plenty of years left, but I've learned something in life.

It happens very, very, very quickly. Live life intentionally, otherwise you'll sober up in 20 years and realize that all the time you thought you had to pursue your career goals has passed you by.

 

[Boris Badenov]

passed you buy.

Just like 3rd grade.

 

[jtrain609]

Just like 3rd grade.

Fixed it, thanks.

 

[Mark815]

By the time you get to 3rd year pay you can clear an easy $50,000 as an FO at a regional.

If you upgrade, by the time you're on 5th year captain pay it's probably closer to $80,000.

Do you have any possibility of further upward mobility with what you do?

That's a problem though. Three years to only clear $50k. Three years of working garbage schedules, being treated like crap from crew scheduling, spending extra time away from home if you're a commuter, while being responsible for multi million dollar aircraft and the lives of hundreds of people per day, all for maybe $50k after a few years on the job. I mean honestly, how sad is that?

Also, once you upgrade all your seniority means nothing anymore. You go back to the bottom of the totem pole, probably have to commute if you're not in a junior base, and get abused all over again.

A major airline career is an amazing career, no doubt about that. The regionals? In my opinion they are just not worth it. You put in a tremendous amount of effort for very little reward. I make the best of it day to day while at work, but after being here only a year I already can't wait to put the regionals behind me.

 

[jtrain609]

That's a problem though. Three years to only clear $50k. Three years of working garbage schedules, being treated like crap from crew scheduling, spending extra time away from home if you're a commuter, while being responsible for multi million dollar aircraft and the lives of hundreds of people per day, all for maybe $50k after a few years on the job. I mean honestly, how sad is that?

Lawyers walk out of law school with around $150,000 of debt on average, an are walking into jobs with an average of $62,000 a year. Oh and they work 80 hours a week. My 5 on 4 off schedule is a vacation in comparison, and I don't even have that good of a schedule.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/15/pf/jobs/lawyer-salaries/

We're underpaid, but we're not the only underpaid profession.

Also, once you upgrade all your seniority means nothing anymore. You go back to the bottom of the totem pole, probably have to commute if you're not in a junior base, and get abused all over again.

A major airline career is an amazing career, no doubt about that. The regionals? In my opinion they are just not worth it. You put in a tremendous amount of effort for very little reward. I make the best of it day to day while at work, but after being here only a year I already can't wait to put the regionals behind me.

A major airline job has the same problems as a regional, you're just paid better to deal with it.

It's a hard reality to accept that it's like this forever, but an airline is an airline. If you hate the life, you'll hate it at mainline too.

 

[Soku39]

Lawyers walk out of law school with around $150,000 of debt on average, an are walking into jobs with an average of $62,000 a year. Oh and they work 80 hours a week. My 5 on 4 off schedule is a vacation in comparison, and I don't even have that good of a schedule.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/15/pf/jobs/lawyer-salaries/

We're underpaid, but we're not the only underpaid profession.



A major airline job has the same problems as a regional, you're just paid better to deal with it.

It's a hard reality to accept that it's like this forever, but an airline is an airline. If you hate the life, you'll hate it at mainline too.

I'm not sure about that, mainline certainly makes things easier to swallow. It would seem that you're not treated worse than the dirt on the bottom of someone's shoe like you are at the regional.

 

[jtrain609]

I'm not sure about that, mainline certainly makes things easier to swallow. It would seem that you're not treated worse than the dirt on the bottom of someone's shoe like you are at the regional.

Which do you see more often; mainline gate and ramp personnel, or outsourced contractors?

I've found it makes a huge difference when the contractors aren't involved in my day.

 

[Soku39]

Which do you see more often; mainline gate and ramp personnel, or outsourced contractors?

I've found it makes a huge difference when the contractors aren't involved in my day.

I'm not a captain, so whoever is working the ramp doesn't matter to me at all, I'm not the person running the tempo of the show. Also, if I were to worry and think about all the asinine things and buffoonery I see on a daily basis when I'm online I would have a coronary by age 32. Put an earbud in, listen to some NPR or spotify when at the gate while enjoying the show and life is all good.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I'm not a captain, so whoever is working the ramp doesn't matter to me at all, I'm not the person running the tempo of the show. Also, if I were to worry and think about all the asinine things and buffoonery I see on a daily basis when I'm online I would have a coronary by age 32. Put an earbud in, listen to some NPR or spotify when at the gate while enjoying the show and life is all good.

Um, sure.

 

[etflies]

Lawyers walk out of law school with around $150,000 of debt on average, an are walking into jobs with an average of $62,000 a year. Oh and they work 80 hours a week. My 5 on 4 off schedule is a vacation in comparison, and I don't even have that good of a schedule.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/15/pf/jobs/lawyer-salaries/

We're underpaid, but we're not the only underpaid profession.



A major airline job has the same problems as a regional, you're just paid better to deal with it.

It's a hard reality to accept that it's like this forever, but an airline is an airline. If you hate the life, you'll hate it at mainline too.

I agree and disagree. The problems are the same but from what I understand not as prevalent. I probably won't have to fight with payroll every two weeks to correct my pay upwards of $1000. I probably won't have to fight with scheduling just to go home and spend 24hrs with my wife if I'm lucky. I won't consider it a fluke to hold a schedule where I can spend more nights in my own bed at night than in some hotel where I need to check the phone in the room to remember in which city I spent the night. I know mainline isn't perfect, but from speaking with my friends who've made it from JV to varsity, they're near night and day better than the regionals. Maybe that is true, maybe it isn't. But I'd sure like to find out for myself.

I understand sacrifice, I understand paying dues and working hard to reach an end goal but the regionals are just a joke of a way to spend that time. Unfortunately they're also one of the best options to get competitive to play ball at mainline.

 

[ppragman]

My current job pays less than a third of what my previous job paid. My next job will likely pay less than half of what my current job pays.

HALP IM DOING IT WRONG

-Fox

What did you do?!

 

[ctab5060X]

I know mainline isn't perfect, but from speaking with my friends who've made it from JV to varsity, they're near night and day better than the regionals. Maybe that is true, maybe it isn't.

It's true.

Night and day is about the simplest and best description for it.

My worst day at mainline has far, far, far exceeded my best day at a regional.

 

[Soku39]

Um, sure.

Maybe on go home leg, but that's about it, I drive to base so it's not like I have a commute to catch. Really I let go of getting my heart rate up over all the dumb things that happen the second I became a line holder and realized that the rampers don't make enough money to care. That's just my generic litmus test in life for those providing me with a service. I just think to myself, "does this person make enough money to give a crap?". In America 9 times out of 10 the answer is no, so I just stop worrying about it.

And it's not like you don't already know which stations suck and which ones are down for a good turn. Expectations should be tempered before you even land.

 

[jtrain609]

I agree and disagree. The problems are the same but from what I understand not as prevalent. I probably won't have to fight with payroll every two weeks to correct my pay upwards of $1000. I probably won't have to fight with scheduling just to go home and spend 24hrs with my wife if I'm lucky. I won't consider it a fluke to hold a schedule where I can spend more nights in my own bed at night than in some hotel where I need to check the phone in the room to remember in which city I spent the night. I know mainline isn't perfect, but from speaking with my friends who've made it from JV to varsity, they're near night and day better than the regionals. Maybe that is true, maybe it isn't. But I'd sure like to find out for myself.

I understand sacrifice, I understand paying dues and working hard to reach an end goal but the regionals are just a joke of a way to spend that time. Unfortunately they're also one of the best options to get competitive to play ball at mainline.

Oh yeah, I don't disagree with this at all.

What I'm more talking about is the lifestyle. Some guys CANNOT STAND being away from home, and think that magically when they get to mainline they'll fly day trips to exotic destinations where the beer flows like wine. There are guys hired at Airways and Delta who are on the 190 and 717 who are doing the exact same flying I'm doing right now, and are probably going to be shocked when they move from an RJ to a slightly larger RJ to find that it's the exact same job, doing the same shuttle flights.

You'll still get re-routed, you'll still work 4 days and you'll still have to deal with the captain that grunts when you ask him if he likes stuff.

I guess what I'm saying is that you either dig the airline lifestyle or you don't. Me? I don't mind going out and doing 4-5 days worth of work at a time. My family deals with it pretty well too. Commuting? It gets frustrating sometimes, but it's never made me want to hang myself (except when I was commuting between DTW and ORD, that was horrible).