Delta TA

Derg said:
Yup. There was a point where a double-digit percentage of my class were out on SLOA.

And I keep running into cohorts from my days of yore at Skyway that are in chemotherapy.

"Oh no, I'll always be young and healthy, I work out every day! I'm superman!"…

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@Richman

Warren Zevon wrote a most excellent song about this before he died.

It's called "My S---t's F---ed Up."

It is about the very phenomenon you described. I'm 41 now and....yeah....I know....
 
@ATN_Pilot, why is it anytime a TA thread pops up, you tell everyone to vote for the first one? Without fail, I've never seen you support turning down a first TA on JC. Just curious.
 
dasleben said:
@ATN_Pilot, why is it anytime a TA thread pops up, you tell everyone to vote for the first one? Without fail, I've never seen you support turning down a first TA on JC. Just curious.
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It's very rare that a union reached a TA that it would be a good idea to reject. Contrary to popular opinion of people who have never negotiated over anything more expensive than a car, the union leaders, negotiators, attorneys, and other advisors usually know what they're doing. They're dealing with the NMB, they're talking to the company, they're looking at the polling data, they're looking at the confidential data provided from the company's books, etc. They rarely screw it up. The time value of money is also a HUGE factor. But most important is understanding how the Board works, and once you do, you realize just how bad an idea it usually is to reject a TA.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
It's very rare that a union reached a TA that it would be a good idea to reject. Contrary to popular opinion of people who have never negotiated over anything more expensive than a car, the union leaders, negotiators, attorneys, and other advisors usually know what they're doing. They're dealing with the NMB, they're talking to the company, they're looking at the polling data, they're looking at the confidential data provided from the company's books, etc. They rarely screw it up. The time value of money is also a HUGE factor. But most important is understanding how the Board works, and once you do, you realize just how bad an idea it usually is to reject a TA.
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The trouble is, it's sometimes not the best deal, or doesn't meet the needs of the membership as a whole. Hence, the beauty of a ratification vote. I can speak from my experience at Omni (we turned down the first TA by 66%, and got improvements in Round 2) that turning down the first TA was the correct thing to do. No amount of selling by Dubinsky and his ilk was enough to sway a pissed off, unified pilot group. And yes, we could have gotten shelved by the NMB, but that was a risk we were all willing to take rather than give up more QOL just for a pay raise.

Now, I'm not a Delta pilot, but it seems to me that if the company only took 6 months to reach a TA with the union, they're in a hurry about something. What is it?
 
dasleben said:
The trouble is, it's sometimes not the best deal, or doesn't meet the needs of the membership as a whole. Hence, the beauty of a ratification vote.
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Sometimes. But very rarely. I voted against the first TA at AirTran, and I stand by that vote. The NPA was a mess, the TA was a mess, and we were better off with the existing book. But again, that was the NPA. I wouldn't trust the NPA to negotiate the purchase price of a 1987 Toyota.

I can speak from my experience at Omni (we turned down the first TA by 66%, and got improvements in Round 2) that turning down the first TA was the correct thing to do. No amount of selling by Dubinsky and his ilk was enough to sway a pissed off, unified pilot group. And yes, we could have gotten shelved by the NMB, but that was a risk we were all willing to take rather than give up more QOL just for a pay raise.
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IBT. 'Nuff said.

Now, I'm not a Delta pilot, but it seems to me that if the company only took 6 months to reach a TA with the union, they're in a hurry about something. What is it?
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Pilots are far too susceptible to belief in conspiracy. I find it fascinating.

In any case, the real reasons are pretty plain. Shareholders are happy when there is certainty and predictability. So is management. Management is also happy when labor is satisfied for a significant period of time, so long as the purchase price of that satisfaction isn't too high. Anderson is brilliant, and I'm sure he looks at it as having two possible paths that work for management and the shareholders:

1. Offer his "last, best, final" in an attempt to get the deal settled prior to the amendable date, settling things to make labor happy, make the shareholders happy, and not have to worry about this for a few more years; or

2. If the LBF he's willing to offer now isn't enough for the pilots, then he'll drag it out old school style for 3-5 years, save the company lots of money in the meantime, and view the poor labor relations as a trade-off for the saved costs over those 3-5 years.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
IBT. 'Nuff said.
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As a freight company, I'm happy that we're IBT. Because, well, how do you think the freight gets to the jet? Teamster truckers. ;)

As for the rest of your post, there are some good points. Thanks.

P.S.: Military callsigns being thrown around the cockpit happens at Atlas too, but thankfully it's going away.
 
Seggy said:
Me wife and kid is the center of my universe.
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