SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Then one would be very unrealistic.
Delta TA
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
Then one would be very unrealistic.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I was thinking this as well. However, with deals like this TA, they may be sitting back and thinking they can drag this out for a few more years, reap the benefits of us NOT having a contract right now and then not have to give up as much as they thought in the end. I don't see this one as "raising the bar" all that much outside of pay rates, honestly. AA's deal doesn't expire until I'll likely upgrade years from now, and I'm not too sure on United. And is that 1.5 years counting the year we've already taken to get this "far"?
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Um. So, they're saying that the new policy is because a small group of pilots were abusing the system. So, they're making a new policy to punish those guys. Sounds great on paper, but in practice there is no way a new policy that goes for ALL pilots is magically going to only affect those guys and not "affect the average pilot." Truth of the matter is, the average pilot will likely one day find himself in a situation that puts him under the policy through circumstances out of his control. I am all for having a sick policy that gives you the tools to handle abuse, however it has to be written better and changing policy to go after abusers and thinking it won't affect the average pilot is unrealistic. 14 DAYS in a 365 day period is easily hit by the "average" pilot. The key word in the policy is "days" not "occurrences." Let's say you fly 3 day trips and get a cold or some other illness that would make you too sick to fly (or make you to the point you SHOULDN'T fly) 4 times in a year. You're at 12 already. Now, it's the new year and you haven't quite made it to that first sick call rolling off, and you're sick again. Now you've either a) gotta deal with verification because you'll be at 15 in a rolling 365 or b) fly sick. I don't see how this doesn't affect the "average pilot" since this is absolutely a situation I'VE found myself in, and I'm by no means a sick call abuser.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
IMO calling in sick >4 times a year is extreme.
If someone really is getting that sick, they need to examine their lifestyle choices (ie eating healthier, getting better rest, sleep patterns, etc.).
But, I left my commuter with 175 hours of sick time. Which was a lot because we only got 3 hours per month. And I had to use 75 hours in a single stretch when I lost my medical temporarily.
I didn't read the whole thread but it seems the issue isn't being sick, if you're sick you're sick, go to the doctor and get a note if that is what they want. You're not going to be fired.
It's no secret quite a few people use sick time for schedule modification. The company is partially to blame, building low credit uncommutable trips.
If someone really is getting that sick, they need to examine their lifestyle choices (ie eating healthier, getting better rest, sleep patterns, etc.).
But, I left my commuter with 175 hours of sick time. Which was a lot because we only got 3 hours per month. And I had to use 75 hours in a single stretch when I lost my medical temporarily.
I didn't read the whole thread but it seems the issue isn't being sick, if you're sick you're sick, go to the doctor and get a note if that is what they want. You're not going to be fired.
It's no secret quite a few people use sick time for schedule modification. The company is partially to blame, building low credit uncommutable trips.
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
Imma bet you don't have little kids, do you? Those things are Petri dishes of disease!
Baronman
Well-Known Member
Things change quite a bit with kids....Kid wakes up sick one morning and nobody to stay home with them except Dad who's supposed to do a day trip.....Happens.
World in your 20's: X
World in your 30's: Y
World in your 40's: "What have I become?!"
Beyond? Holy hell, I don't even want to think about it as I'm sitting here nursing a running injury after running a mere 5K that I could have easily completed in between commercial breaks ten years ago.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
CAPIP1998
Well-Known Member
Again, there is already a threshold. 100 hours is just as arbitrary as 14 days or 6 occurrences. In your example you feel that an occurrence based system is better (ignoring the fact that it's not even on the table). However, if that same pilot was flying 3 individual day-trips instead of 3-day trips then he would be adversely affected by that system. And what about reserves? Is every day an occurrence?
My point here is that the only choice is between a 100 hour threshold and a 14 day threshold. Seems to me there is only a small difference between the two and a daily metric treats both line holders and reserves the same unlike the 100 hour threshold. That's the only choice we have at this time on this point.
There are many good things to debate, but it's not really useful to get sidetracked on the could've, should've, would've. We have concrete language in front of us and the choice is to have the TA or stick with the current system.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
It's not "magic." It's by designing the system in a way that statistically excludes the overwhelming majority of pilots and only affects the very few.
Nope. Only affects 30% of the pilots. And they only need to turn in a doctor's note. The numbers don't lie.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Well said @CAPIP1998 and @ATN_Pilot. Took the words right out of my mouth, numbers don't lie. Overwhelming majority of Delta Pilots will be unaffected by new sick policy.
Even if you hit the threshold. Get it verified. End of story. With A350s, A330s, A321s, 737-900 and E190s arriving at a rapid pace, management is growing he airline significantly. They need those 20-30% sick time abusers to show up to work and will make us the highest paid airline pilots in the world to do that.
Even if you hit the threshold. Get it verified. End of story. With A350s, A330s, A321s, 737-900 and E190s arriving at a rapid pace, management is growing he airline significantly. They need those 20-30% sick time abusers to show up to work and will make us the highest paid airline pilots in the world to do that.
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SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Well, you went a little far on that one. The 20-30% aren't sick abusers. I'd say maybe 5-10% are. The others just have chronic conditions, lots of kids, or other things going on that cause the higher rate of sick leave use. But in those cases, providing a note is pretty easy. Should they have to? No. But again, negotiations, not demands.
The 20-30% aren't sick abusers. I'd say maybe 5-10% are. The others just have chronic conditions, lots of kids, or other things going on that cause the higher rate of sick leave use. But in those cases, providing a note is pretty easy. Should they have to? No. But again, negotiations, not demands.
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
Until the JV and LCA "Less pilots needed jobs loss" allows you to decrease your labor force.
Regardless of everything else in this TA, the LCA provision is a NO. They could give us a 25% pay bump, order 100 A380s and Trip7 would die from excessive loss of "essential bodily fluids" in his excitement, and I would still vote NO if the LCA provision was still included.
KLB
Well-Known Member
World in your 20's: X
World in your 30's: Y
World in your 40's: "What have I become?!"
Beyond? Holy hell, I don't even want to think about it as I'm sitting here nursing a running injury after running a mere 5K that I could have easily completed in between commercial breaks ten years ago.
Dear Duff ( @Derg ) ,
You're not a young whipper snapper anymore. The elliptical machine is your friend.
Sincerely,
An elliptical operator
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Sorry @Derg, he won the Internettes today.
NEWMAN!!!!!
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
World in your 20's: X
World in your 30's: Y
World in your 40's: "What have I become?!"
Beyond? Holy hell, I don't even want to think about it as I'm sitting here nursing a running injury after running a mere 5K that I could have easily completed in between commercial breaks ten years ago.
I no longer search for the Fountain of Youth....I'm looking for the Fountain of Middle Age.
You hit 40-45, and the warranty expires. Stuff you didn't even know you have breaks, it's VERY expensive to get fixed, and never works as good as the original.
I've seen plenty of WTF just happened? moments from people who "never got sick" or never had the spotlight on them. Lots of "moments of clarity", and they're never, ever fun.
Richman
Yup. There was a point where a double-digit percentage of my class were out on SLOA.
And I keep running into cohorts from my days of yore at Skyway that are in chemotherapy.
"Oh no, I'll always be young and healthy, I work out every day! I'm superman!"…