Are the airlines really hiring more pilots?

CFI A&P said:
You don't say? This has been playing out in flight schools for years.
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While true, the impact in the airline industry in particular has a choking effect on the professional progression of every pilot at the company. If you can't make Check Airmen, you can't make new Captains, which means you can't make new FOs.
 
CFI A&P said:
Just recently I called an acquaintance out for having a suspicious amount of flight time for their age. So he unfriended me on Myspace.
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Yeah, thing is, I don't think the FFDs are going to be looking very hard at their applicants' log books for the foreseeable future. If indeed they ever did.
 
I wasn't making any claims by asking if we were seeing any evidence of less quality time (IMC, MEL, turbine, high performance, complex) in recent classes.

I think that we will see that in the future. Will it matter? Probably not. Planes weren't falling out of the sky when regionals we're accepting 250-300 hours.

I think the 121 sector would have been best served by raising minimum standards in other ways.
 
Hacker15e said:
I've always wondered why flight schools weren't staffed by retired corporate and airline pilots. In an ideal world, that's who would be teaching the next generation of aviators.

I just wish more of them had an interest in flying outside of work.
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That's what my Dad is doing for his "retirement" job.

He legitimately loves to fly, after (large number) of years at the controls he still rather enjoys it. (I don't think I ever saw him happier than when we bummed around doing some dual in the Scout last summer.) The floats are pure fun. Ditto acro, although I don't think he'll be teaching any of that (already had). If I ever get more than 2 days off in a row and the money to do it, I'm going to get my CFI/CFII and my SES.

Anyway, yeah. I've been fortunate to learn from both old salts and young farts and some awesome stick and rudder guys like @TwoTwoLeft ; a blend of their approaches is fun.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Yeah, thing is, I don't think the FFDs are going to be looking very hard at their applicants' log books for the foreseeable future. If indeed they ever did.
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Attitude is (and always has been) the most effective predictor of safety.

The last thing My Employer did at my interview was take a quick glance at my logbook. Actually, with the exception of the near-fascist (in terms of accuracy - they are/were otherwise great people) HR people at Envoy, my logbook has been the last thing that any interview has ever looked at.

Right, @z987k?
 
I was pretty good at bowling when I was a kid, if they wanted to make something like that a minimum standard I'd be ok with it!
 
Boris Badenov said:
Yeah, thing is, I don't think the FFDs are going to be looking very hard at their applicants' log books for the foreseeable future. If indeed they ever did.
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During my initial at Mesa, we had a Fed sitting in on our ground school. He told us that a the FSDO pulled a new FO's 8710 because they had some questions about his times. The guy resigned before having to talk to the FSDO, so, he's got a CL-65 type and zero time in type.

The point being guys with P-51 time are being caught by the system.
 
USMCmech said:
During my initial at Mesa, we had a Fed sitting in on our ground school. He told us that a the FSDO pulled a new FO's 8710 because they had some questions about his times. The guy resigned before having to talk to the FSDO, so, he's got a CL-65 type and zero time in type.

The point being guys with P-51 time are being caught by the system.
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If you lie, they WILL find out. (We WILL too, and then you're going to be given the "Hey, (last name), grab your things and come with me" treatment on Day 2-3 of ground school. Or possibly a bit later, but either way, you WILL NOT be employed as a pilot at this airline if you lie about your qualifications.)

Desperate though the regional sector may be, that behavior is not tolerated.
 
Johnny Beau Bekkestad said:
Not necessarily disagree with you, but a pilot needs to build up the 1250 hours in order to be hired.
What do you think is the best option to build hours then?
CFI for 1250 hours and take controls about every 100 some hours and do 3 take of and landings every 90 days etc...
Tow banners up and down the coastline in severe cavok...
Pipeline patrol is probably pretty ok
135 perhaps but they want 135 mins as well.
Or a scenario where the prospect pilot can get 1250 hours in a jet with a senior captain who can teach him and build him in a good way.
Perhaps its time to bring back second officers or flight engineers.
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The best option would be for the applicant to get real world experience. Go instruct, or banner tow, or survey, or ANYTHING until they get to IFR 135 mins, then go fly cargo single pilot, or fly charter, THEN go to an airline if they desire. Aviation is a HUGE industry but so many people seem to have tunnel vision for the airlines.

I didn't necessarily enjoy my time flying survey, but give a 500hr pilot a 172 for seven months and you'll see how quick they learn and build real experience. Flying a Skyhawk accross the country on your own, flight planning, dealing with ATC, flying in the most congested airspaces in the nation, all help build that experience.

At 1200hrs you can go get typed in a light jet, or fly a twin piston/turboprop and build more experience. Fly boxes or people, it doesn't matter. It's all a challenge and teaches you A LOT.

Your last point of "get 1250 hours in a jet with a senior captain who can teach him and build him in a good way." isn't realistic either. First off, no captain wants to babysit a 250hr pilot. Next, no schedule based on seniority would ever allow a senior captain to fly with a very junior FO. That junior 250hr pilot will be flying with new captains all the time.

It's not time to bring back SO's or FEs, it's time to understand that experience is worth something, and that those of us with thousands of hours of airline/charter experience are worth something. I can promise you that if regional airlines started paying real salaries, there wouldn't be a shortage for very long. I've personally worked with many people at my last gig who say they would love to go to an airline, but they can't afford a 50%+ pay cut.
 
Mark815 said:
It's not time to bring back SO's or FEs, it's time to understand that experience is worth something, and that those of us with thousands of hours of airline/charter experience are worth something. I can promise you that if regional airlines started paying real salaries, there wouldn't be a shortage for very long. I've personally worked with many people at my last gig who say they would love to go to an airline, but they can't afford a 50%+ pay cut.
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What amount would be fair? I always felt bad for the people that turned down legacy jobs because they couldn't look past 1st year pay. I know several regional captains that turned down US Airways and other legacies a few years back when it was a massive pay cut. If you don't go and you saved up the difference in your pay cut that you turned down, there are very few other investments that you get a better ROI with that money. Most never think of it that way or live above their means with houses, cars, kids that max out their current salary and can't afford to invest. Luckily, the legacy 1st year pay scares are only a slight pay cut now for regional CA's since 1st year is 75k+ now with second year being a 30% raise. The same concept applies to people stuck in 50k/year charter/cargo jobs who can't see past year 1 at the regionals to get to the 90-100k regional captain pay while fast tracking their resume for legacy. I don't agree with the lower 1st year regional pay and hopefully it goes up also but there is life beyond year 1.
 
Jonathan Jerome said:
I am asking about the majors for the most part. I remember reading something last year about the major giving most of the gigs to regional carriers to save money.
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Compared to the early 2000's, or any time since 2001 - yes the majors are hiring more pilots. For instance. While probably COMPLETELY inaccurate, JC used to a "regional pilot hangout." ( No not really, but there certainly is/was A LOT of regional pilots here). There seems to be a lot more major pilots here these days (and it's a lot of the same users).
 
Johnny Beau Bekkestad said:
Not necessarily disagree with you, but a pilot needs to build up the 1250 hours in order to be hired.
What do you think is the best option to build hours then?
CFI for 1250 hours and take controls about every 100 some hours and do 3 take of and landings every 90 days etc...
Tow banners up and down the coastline in severe cavok...
Pipeline patrol is probably pretty ok
135 perhaps but they want 135 mins as well.
Or a scenario where the prospect pilot can get 1250 hours in a jet with a senior captain who can teach him and build him in a good way.
Perhaps its time to bring back second officers or flight engineers.
Click to expand...
Lololol the tired old cfis doing pattern laps vfr in 150 argument.
 
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B767 said:
Compared to the early 2000's, or any time since 2001 - yes the majors are hiring more pilots. For instance. While probably COMPLETELY inaccurate, JC used to a "regional pilot hangout." ( No not really, but there certainly is/was A LOT of regional pilots here). There seems to be a lot more major pilots here these days (and it's a lot of the same users).
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And soon, more retired old salts to fade away...
 
ppragman said:
I fear for west Alaska because of this phenomenon, I suspect that we've already seen a little bit of this up north.
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Except the part where it's old timers balling up caravans and sleds and the low time Era FO who called for a go around before the captain ripped the gear off a 1900.
 
Jonathan Jerome said:
Good to hear, hopefully everything will stay sweet, steady, and stable.
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Again, there really is no such thing. If you had followed the industry for the last few decades, (and especially at the regional level) you would know this. Realistically, how far away are you from even being able to apply at a regional if that's your goal? While it's a good idea to try and plan ahead somewhat, it really makes a difference as to your current situation what your respective short term vs long term goals are/should be and your focus. What happens one year, does not necessarily reflect upon/correlate what will occur the following year. The players and even the game for each player changes and fluctuates. You can't look at a current snapshot and assume that picture will still be relevant even a year from now.

It might be more pertinent to look at where you are currently, how you plan to attain the next steps/ future stages and ask for some advice from this position rather than being so concerned with something that is not in your immediate future. Plenty of minds to pick on here and good ideas/suggestions can abound that may be far more useful for you in your present situation. For instance, what are your plans for college?
 
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