Delta TA

Trip7 said:
With 25 A350s, 25 A330s-900s and 10 A330-300s coming, there's no mathematical way they can park widebodies and still in compliance with even the amended C2015 JV language. Not to mention the 787s still on order
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Wouldn't take much. How many 767's do you guys have? I think you could park just the 300ER and those orders would be a net loss. I hope you're right. Management already has the playbook.
 
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Cptnchia said:
Just stop. We will never see the 787 at Delta. That ship sailed, got torpedoed by the Airbus Wolfpack, and is a rotting carcass on the ocean floor.
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I disagree.
Cptnchia said:
You'd think that's what the survey said, but no. The overwhelming vote was "No change to PS." Even the company's opener had no change to PS. Yet, somehow it changed. What will be interesting is how the other employee groups react to the change.
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I've heard differently. Industry leading compensation was a top priority along with keeping the profit sharing program. The priority wasn't keeping it exactly as it was even if it meant lower compensation.

Delta is on the verge of Industry leading rates of AA+3.5% then plus profit sharing percentage. If Delta makes $6 billion pilot pay beats AA compensation by 13.5%. If Delta makes $10billion AA is beaten by 25.5%

@BobDDuck how did you come to the conclusion the pay raise was cost neutral with the 6% profit sharing hit?

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Well, I went into this with fairly low expectations. They didn't disappoint me in that regard. I want to be able to vote yes for an early deal.

Likes:
Pay is... ok. It's another base hit, nothing more, and I don't mind the logic in trading profit sharing. (It's an airline, for petes sake... we're in the business of not making profit)
Scope improvements- further locking in more mainline flying (despite allowing up to 25 more 76 seaters), tightened JV compliance window, and I agree with keeping VA out of the trans-atlantic metric, Republic carveout gone
Individual vacation days
Improved fragmentation language
Hotels for newhires

Meh:
Sick leave.... nothing good, nothing really worse than we have now.

Dislikes:
TATL JV metric changed from equivalent seat kms to pilot block hours. That is a BIG deal- that means AF can add A380s on routes and that is considered the same as a 757 (or A321 in the future). With ESKs if they dropped an A380 onto a route, that was 2 767s that we had to add.
Seattle STILL not a hub....
TLV (transitive line value) max adjusted from 80 hours to 81 hours. Bye bye 100+ pilot jobs with that one.
And this one may be the deal breaker for me: LCA trip buyoffs for OE. Up to 75% of trips that LCAs bid for will be pulled out of the FO's pot for bidding. That is a complete abrogation of seniority and totally screws up any FO bids of any seniority.

Take out the LCA thing and I'm fairly easily a yes vote... I'm really having a hard time getting over that, though. That to me is something it may be worth it to send it back through the spin cycle another time.
 
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peanuckleCRJ said:
And this one may be the deal breaker for me: LCA trip buyoffs for OE. Up to 75% of trips that LCAs bid for will be pulled out of the FO's pot for bidding. That is a complete abrogation of seniority and totally screws up any FO bids of any seniority (since you don't know what is getting pulled).
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Yup, we have that it and it sucks. CA awards are done first, checkairman trips are noted, and then FO awards are done after they have removed from the pot all the checkairman trips that were assigned for IOE.
 
I only ask because I don't know. Was the JV carve out part of a LOA or was it part of C2012? As a regional guy hoping to one day be at the majors, isn't this just as big a threat to mainline jobs as the ME carriers? Farming out wide body flying to JVs, isn't that worse than 70-76 seat scope? Am I missing something?
 
nc1982 said:
I only ask because I don't know. Was the JV carve out part of a LOA or was it part of C2012? As a regional guy hoping to one day be at the majors, isn't this just as big a threat to mainline jobs as the ME carriers? Farming out wide body flying to JVs, isn't that worse than 70-76 seat scope? Am I missing something?
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The current JV language was part of 2012. This cleans up some of that, while changing the measurement metric. At the least we need more clarification on the ramifications of changing from ESKs to pilot block hours.
 
Trip7 said:
I disagree.


I've heard differently. Industry leading compensation was a top priority along with keeping the profit sharing program. The priority wasn't keeping it exactly as it was even if it meant lower compensation.

Delta is on the verge of Industry leading rates of AA+3.5% then plus profit sharing percentage. If Delta makes $6 billion pilot pay beats AA compensation by 13.5%. If Delta makes $10billion AA is beaten by 25.5%

@BobDDuck how did you come to the conclusion the pay raise was cost neutral with the 6% profit sharing hit?

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is all you care about pay? that seems to be the only thing you are focusing on
 
SmoothLanderJ said:
Well I'll say that I'm very happy to be at Alaska but it definitely seems like Delta is leading the way in regaining mainline flying from the regionals. Hopefully our union can learn a thing or two.
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don't know if it's true or not but heard from a buddy today QX was talking about 190s ~$30 below Jetblue rates
 
Trip7 said:
No. Continued Mainline scope recapture is a major major win. Cue the it was coming anyway crowd.
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Some win. Recaptured small airplane scope at the expense of WB scope. Hope you like flying domestic NBs for your career as our JV partners take over the international flying. And quit just focusing on pay rates. That should be the last thing that factors into a YES or NO vote. At least at Delta anyway. The LCA debacle trumps everything. Even if they gave us a 25% pay bump, its still a NO for be because of it.
 
Trip7 said:
No. Continued Mainline scope recapture is a major major win. Cue the it was coming anyway crowd.
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again, i'm an outsider.

but my thought is DL is going to bring those 100 seat airplanes on property no matter what since the FFD carriers are having such problems staffing. Why would you allow them to add more airplanes to the regionals when you don't have to? You are basically saying give us x planes and then you can give the regional y planes.....when big daddy D is gonna bring X planes anyways....so you are needlessly giving Y planes (again, my opinion). And I'd argue the JV change to block hours is a loss of scope. With the current A380 vs 2 767s going to A380 vs 1 767
 
ian said:
again, i'm an outsider.

but my thought is DL is going to bring those 100 seat airplanes on property no matter what since the FFD carriers are having such problems staffing. Why would you allow them to add more airplanes to the regionals when you don't have to? You are basically saying give us x planes and then you can give the regional y planes.....when big daddy D is gonna bring X planes anyways....so you are needlessly giving Y planes (again, my opinion). And I'd argue the JV change to block hours is a loss of scope. With the current A380 vs 2 767s going to A380 vs 1 767
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You're correct about the JV scope. As far as small plane scope, the company was still not at the allowed limit in big RJs so they could have added those planes anytime they wanted to.
 
As a future Deltoid, can someone explain the JV scope clause? I'm having a hard time understanding this. Right now JV flying is based on seats, not airframes? And the TA switches it to airframes? Even with all the WB orders does this look like a possible loss of intl flying? How about new hire pay, still the standard training pay or did that go up as well? Thanks.
 
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