Plane off runway in Buffalo

The airlines can and should have this stuff. The amount of information, and the oversight that can be accomplished with our software is insane.

I go days without even so much as an email or phone call to the company. We acknowledge briefs, check in, get releases, order crew food, check weather, look at schedules, request aircraft cleaning, squawk and MEL items, and so much more. It is a pretty amazing piece of software.
 
The airlines can and should have this stuff. The amount of information, and the oversight that can be accomplished with our software is insane.

I go days without even so much as an email or phone call to the company. We acknowledge briefs, check in, get releases, order crew food, check weather, look at schedules, request aircraft cleaning, squawk and MEL items, and so much more. It is a pretty amazing piece of software.

From a crew support aspect a program like that along with some automatic reporting when something isn't done would trap most errors before they become errors.

Something like integrating it so that once a crew blocks out for the last flight of the day the program ensures there is a hotel booked. If there isn't one, it alerts someone to fix that.

Pretty much endless opportunities
 
From a crew support aspect a program like that along with some automatic reporting when something isn't done would trap most errors before they become errors.

Something like integrating it so that once a crew blocks out for the last flight of the day the program ensures there is a hotel booked. If there isn't one, it alerts someone to fix that.

Pretty much endless opportunities

Ours does all that, we see the hotel booked, or transportation if we need it (or we just need to grab a taxi), ASAP reporting, currency, schedule. It is really crazy.
 
Also, the second we see anything we don't like, the wheel stops and we can fix it. If we see that the weather is bad and we want to add a little more extra fuel than dispatch allotted, we just send an email.
 
From a crew support aspect a program like that along with some automatic reporting when something isn't done would trap most errors before they become errors.

Something like integrating it so that once a crew blocks out for the last flight of the day the program ensures there is a hotel booked. If there isn't one, it alerts someone to fix that.

Pretty much endless opportunities

My last company never had a problem with hotel bookings. You were usually sent your hotel info by mid day.

At the current company...well we book our own hotels. :)
 
Agreed. My first example is basically "ATC, please fly my airplane for me!"; my second example is "ATC, since you guys have a broad picture down there and can likely get info quicker, can I enlist some help/info from you, to assist me in making an informed command decision".

Easy to get ATC to help you out in that way, so you can get yourself pointed in a correct direction, rather than burning precious time (fuel) doing it all yourself. Even having departed with a plan, with an alternate; crap changes up there often and without warning, as you well know.

This article has a brief textual account of the Mesa aircraft includes some of the GoJet diversion transmission...Towards the bottom of the article.

"Okay, we need to go to an alternate," the pilot said. "Give me an airport where we have to go."

http://www.wgrz.com/story/news/2015/06/08/plane-off-runway/28671539/
 
More cringe-worth was a Go-Jet arriving into the area.....Tells approach they don't have gas for much deviating and they don't have an alternate....Then asks the approach to give them an alternate airport, approach suggests ROC. GoJet pilot tells approach to write a # down....Select option #1 and tell our dispatch that we're diverting, our ACARS is out. Nice dispatcher.....Sends them up to BUF with weather and no alternate and no ACARS at midnight. Sucks.

What What WHAT?!
 
I actually can understand that, if you don't know where your line and diversionary stations are. (I don't LIKE it, but I get it.)

I do wish I had a diversionary airport map up front. Basically, a map of all places ~6000' (or maybe even shorter when everything in the stopping department is working properly) long where I can get a jetbridge, maybe the paramedics if I need them, and Jet A. (I have the Alternates manual and the line stations manual, but I don't have (beyond a knowledge of where I am, and where I've been before at any given time) a map of these places.
Get an iPhone. Load Foreflight. Problem solved.
 
I agree no ACARS is fine...Not a show stopper. But it's added ammunition if I get any pushback about adding fuel or an alternate.

Why no ALT? Who knows. In my experience especially at a regional if the TAF didn't go below the 1-2-3 rule there was rarely an alternate added. And if Dispatch didn't take a look at the route and see the weather, well then we were dispatched probably with 45Min plus the typical 15Min they always added. Thunderstorms in the TAF frequently show 2000' ceilings and not the worst VIS however they definitely (probably more than anything) affect our ability to operate in and out of a field.

I hate to say but this scenario plays out pretty frequently at regionals especially down across TX and up in the northeast where lots of weather passes through. You're quick turning all day at one of United's horribly outfitted hubs, trying to find a working kiosk to get your weather. Dealing with all the headaches of IAD, and you don't spend as much time as you should have checking the WX. It's happened to me before.....Learned from it.
Wait. What?! I don't fly 121, but is it typical in 121 for dispatch to place your fuel order for you??!! If so, you have authority to get more, no? If not, WTF? Over.
 
From a crew support aspect a program like that along with some automatic reporting when something isn't done would trap most errors before they become errors.

Something like integrating it so that once a crew blocks out for the last flight of the day the program ensures there is a hotel booked. If there isn't one, it alerts someone to fix that.

Pretty much endless opportunities

While great in theory, I know without a shadow of a doubt that more than a few guys would turn into HUGE PITA if given access to something like this.
 
Wait. What?! I don't fly 121, but is it typical in 121 for dispatch to place your fuel order for you??!! If so, you have authority to get more, no? If not, WTF? Over.

Dispatch typically calculates the required and desired fuel when the flight is planned.

However, there is joint responsibility between the dispatcher and the captain, so the captain can usually get extra fuel within reason, as long as they involve the dispatcher.

On my current fleet, dispatchers are pretty good about giving us all the fuel we want.
 
Wait. What?! I don't fly 121, but is it typical in 121 for dispatch to place your fuel order for you??!! If so, you have authority to get more, no? If not, WTF? Over.

Yes, as pointed out dispatch puts in your fuel order. Now when they do so you have the numbers on your release- taxi, burn off, holding fuel, reserve, alternate fuel (if required), and perhaps extra fuel if the dispatcher is on the ball and sees something that warrants it.
Most carriers give the PIC discretion to add a marginal amount without discussing it with the dispatcher. This is especially the case of pax or bags are going to be bumped. It's not to say you don't bump them for gas when safety is involved. Happens on a regular basis. At the same time, however, you don't bump them for a "warm and fuzzy". If pilot wants a warm and fuzzy he should get a stuffed bear.
Also understand that extra fuel above what is required=weight. It costs gas to carry that weight so you could say it costs gas to carry gas. On one flight you are not talking about much but add it up over a fleet doing thousands of flights a day and it adds up.
This sometimes leads to airplanes diverting and it is understood that this will happen. The cost of an occasional divert is still less that airplanes flying around with excess gas.
Finally, crews have a part in this. In addition to looking at the dispatch and agreeing with it they need to fly the plan or at least keep a close eye on the gas. Airlines for the most part have moved to smart cost index flying or smart CI. Usually this will have you fly slow to conserve gas, but sometimes it will have you fly fast to make up time. If the ACARS tells you to fly faster than the planned CI number, on the release or if you decide on your own to just fly fast, you need to keep an eye on the burn rate and fuel on board. There have been cases of crews having to divert or even worse landing on fumes as they did not track this.
 
Yes, as pointed out dispatch puts in your fuel order. Now when they do so you have the numbers on your release- taxi, burn off, holding fuel, reserve, alternate fuel (if required), and perhaps extra fuel if the dispatcher is on the ball and sees something that warrants it.
Most carriers give the PIC discretion to add a marginal amount without discussing it with the dispatcher. This is especially the case of pax or bags are going to be bumped. It's not to say you don't bump them for gas when safety is involved. Happens on a regular basis. At the same time, however, you don't bump them for a "warm and fuzzy". If pilot wants a warm and fuzzy he should get a stuffed bear.
Also understand that extra fuel above what is required=weight. It costs gas to carry that weight so you could say it costs gas to carry gas. On one flight you are not talking about much but add it up over a fleet doing thousands of flights a day and it adds up.
This sometimes leads to airplanes diverting and it is understood that this will happen. The cost of an occasional divert is still less that airplanes flying around with excess gas.
Finally, crews have a part in this. In addition to looking at the dispatch and agreeing with it they need to fly the plan or at least keep a close eye on the gas. Airlines for the most part have moved to smart cost index flying or smart CI. Usually this will have you fly slow to conserve gas, but sometimes it will have you fly fast to make up time. If the ACARS tells you to fly faster than the planned CI number, on the release or if you decide on your own to just fly fast, you need to keep an eye on the burn rate and fuel on board. There have been cases of crews having to divert or even worse landing on fumes as they did not track this.
My question was more in regard to the command authority of the Captain in planning the flight in 121 ops. But thanks for all that technical stuff... that info would really have helped me before I got my Certs and Types, especially the part about weight and fuel requirements. I never really thought about it before, but I bet if you flew at a lower altitude you'd probably burn more gas too, huh?
 
My question was more in regard to the command authority of the Captain in planning the flight in 121 ops. But thanks for all that technical stuff... that info would really have helped me before I got my Certs and Types, especially the part about weight and fuel requirements. I never really thought about it before, but I bet if you flew at a lower altitude you'd probably burn more gas too, huh?

Sorry. Did not mean to come across as demeaning.
 
I never really thought about it before, but I bet if you flew at a lower altitude you'd probably burn more gas too, huh?

You do.

If you go higher, you can burn less gas as well.

Good fuel management starts before you even shut the door. You can save a ton of fuel on the ground by simply being conscious of APU usage, single engine taxi and appropriate timing on delayed engine starts.
 
Back
Top