help with lazy eights

I think alot of students have trouble with the words "level flight attitude", "max pitch down", etc.. Its doesnt give them a visual on what this looks like. I must admit that I even have trouble explaining that. Can anyone here give a good description...thanks
 
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I think a lot of students have trouble with the words "level flight attitude", "max pitch down", etc.. Its doesn't give them a visual on what this looks like. I must admit that I even have trouble explaining that.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't understand what you are saying. You get in an airplane, take off, gain altitude, set up a cruise speed, establish level flight, and look out the window. What you see is "level pitch attitude" for you, in that airplane, with the seat set at that height.

If a commercial applicant doesn't know what a level pitch attitude looks like, he needs to go back to primary training (actually, he probably used to know what it was before instrument training destroyed it).
 
Good posts on a difficult maneuver. I would like to add a couple of things.

1. Don't think of the maneuver in mechanical terms; don't sweat your pitch/bank at the key points. Your first few tries will stink; as you continue, you will 'feel' the maneuver and the altitudes and airspeeds will be there for you.

2. Start the maneuver perpendicular to the wind. Each half of the maneuver will then be into the wind and the control forces will feel similar to you.
 
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In the 172, we'd use 1800 RPM and around 90 knots.

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The 172 (at least the 1979 "N" model) has an entry speed to the lazy 8 and chandelle stated in the AFM as 105 KIAS. I usually started the lazy 8 at 22-2300 RPM and 105 KTS.
 
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The 172 (at least the 1979 "N" model) has an entry speed to the lazy 8 and chandelle stated in the AFM as 105 KIAS.

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Grr, I come in late to a discussion and have something to share, only to find the last post says exactly what I was going to say.
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105 kts is also for the R model, and I've found that to work great everytime. In fact, Lazy-8s are probably one of my best maneuvers. Keep it smooth, plan, coordinate, blah, blah, blah, look out the window!!!
 
Thanks for all the help. I still feel that I'm over looking such a simple maneuver but I should be able to knock this out.
 
1. Cover up your instruments and do this maneuver by feel and by what you see on the big PFD- out the window. Most students come from instrument training and try to do this as an instrument maneuver.
2. Once you get the feel for it with no instruments the trick to nailing the lazy eight is at the 90 degree point each time note the altitude you have to looze. Time your pitch and bank to roll out at the 180 point on altitude.
 
jrh said:
How can you account for my example of doing a lazy 8 at idle power or at full power then? They won't work out.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't understand how you can say power doesn't matter. I think part of the commercial manuevers is learning how to use power appropriately to complete a maneuver. I don't think you should be jockeying with the throttle at all once the maneuver is started, but you have to set the power correctly to begin with.
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Power matters, but only inasmuch as how you set it (and thereby create your initial energy) at the beginning of the maneuver. It's an exercise in energy management, so power should really be left alone. If it starts getting all FUBAR and you choose to try to save it, go ahead and adjust power. But then you're adding a bunch of new variables you're going to have to adjust for.
 
My instructor taught me the concept of 3 parts pitch to one part bank. Pitch-pitch-pitch-bank,pitch pitch pitch-bank, in very small increments when initiating the maneuver. Enter below Va , power fixed, and gain about 200-300 ft on each of the turns. Use the Nose and Wing tip visual references to nail the headings, for example, put your right wing on the 90 degree point, and during the turn the nose will align with that same point on the horizon, and then slowly, the left wing will come into alignment next and when it does you know half the maneuver is complete and where you should be. Allow the airplane's nose to "Slice" smoothly through the horizon as the 90 degree point is reached, anticipate the over-banking. The stall warning horn doesn't have to be going off, but it will be on the edge. Try to be fluid.
 
jrh said:
It's been a while since I've done lazy 8's, but if you either end up too high, or at the correct altitude but too fast (because you were going to be too high so you forced it down to altitude, therefore gaining airspeed), that means you initiated the maneuver with too much power.

Think of it this way--if you pull the power to idle and do a lazy 8, you will end too low (duh, obviously, you're just gliding), and if you go to full power, you are going to end up too high, because climbs are the result of excess thrust, and full power will mean you have excess thrust. You have to find the perfect power setting in the middle that puts you out where you want to be at the end.

Also, remember that the outside temperature affect the amount of power required. That means that manifold pressure will need to change based on the weather...a little higher MP in the summer, a little lower MP in the winter. I've never thought about this for a 172 before, but it has manifold pressure too--just no gauge for it and no way to precisely set it. But you get the idea...more throttle in the summer and less throttle in the winter.

Good luck with your flying...I found commercial training to not necessarily be the hardest, but definately the most frustrating training.
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I realize this was posted 10 years ago now, but power should always remain fixed during lazy 8's. no adjustment of power should be occurring during the maneuver, hence the importance of being at proper power setting and airspeed during the setup/entry phase
 
Mike addressed power. Any setting works but each one requires a different pitch/bank attitude to make it work. So pick one you like and stick with it.

I'll add cover the instruments for a lesson and practice. Check the instruments at the beginning and end of the maneuver to verify completion standards; don't need them one bit during. And if you have a Cfi that can't fly it within pts with the instruments covered find one who can.

The commercial maneuvers are visual maneuvers, not an instrument maneuver. Like any aerobatic type maneuver they are flown using visual cues.
 
hook_dupin said:
A decade! That has to be a JC necro-post record!

Just goes to show... There's some good stuff if you use that there search function.
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I didn't look at the usernames and was happy for the guy that he finally figured out lazy 8s after 10 years.
 
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