flyinggreasemnky
Well-Known Member
They would love that and I know Embraer and Boeing are trying to figure out ways to make single pilot airliners.
Strapped for pilots, Republic asks partners to reduce flights
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
They would love that and I know Embraer and Boeing are trying to figure out ways to make single pilot airliners.
poser765
Well-Known Member
I am agreeing more and more with your thoughts on the situation.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
SureJet could offer the Delta contract and it'd probably still get voted down because it had PBS.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
A few observations.
1. Those airlines that have been in talks for several years messed up. A year ago the airlines were in the driver's seat and probably could have offered half descent contracts and the pilots would have signed. Now the pilots are in the driver seats as all the regionals struggle to find pilots.
2. Talk of this or that airline on its deathbed is premature. While it is quite possible for a few to go under in the next few years it is anyone's guess as to which one. A single Colgan 3407 could put today's darling behind the eight ball. Also with the shortage of pilots I think it is more likely that you will see some mergers/purchases as airlines struggle through any means possible to get pilots.
3. If you are "stuck" as an FO look at moving, but make sure you have that bird in hand before making the leap. Also understand that upgrades and such can change very quickly. Airlines are struggling for pilots and right now the easy fix for some is the "fast upgrade" or street captain incentive. This incentive probably won't work much longer. Know that if you take such a position you are on the bottom of the list. So, for example, if your new airline merges with your old carrier you could find yourself suddenly very junior and back in the right seat, behind pilots who use to be junior to you.
It will be an interesting 5-10 years.
1. Those airlines that have been in talks for several years messed up. A year ago the airlines were in the driver's seat and probably could have offered half descent contracts and the pilots would have signed. Now the pilots are in the driver seats as all the regionals struggle to find pilots.
2. Talk of this or that airline on its deathbed is premature. While it is quite possible for a few to go under in the next few years it is anyone's guess as to which one. A single Colgan 3407 could put today's darling behind the eight ball. Also with the shortage of pilots I think it is more likely that you will see some mergers/purchases as airlines struggle through any means possible to get pilots.
3. If you are "stuck" as an FO look at moving, but make sure you have that bird in hand before making the leap. Also understand that upgrades and such can change very quickly. Airlines are struggling for pilots and right now the easy fix for some is the "fast upgrade" or street captain incentive. This incentive probably won't work much longer. Know that if you take such a position you are on the bottom of the list. So, for example, if your new airline merges with your old carrier you could find yourself suddenly very junior and back in the right seat, behind pilots who use to be junior to you.
It will be an interesting 5-10 years.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Isn't that the truth. Sometimes it seems like we are dealing with Rainman.
Mark815
Well-Known Member
They would still complain about captains costing too much money!
Here's an idea, get rid of Captains, and just use two First Officers! Heck, for $45k/yr you could staff the front of every airliner! Boom, problem solved!
flyinggreasemnky
Well-Known Member
RAH is really on the edge of a cliff right now and just about to go over. People can't even fathom how bad it has gotten there due to lack of crews. They are parking 6 brand new 175s for the summer because they can't staff them.
Any economic downturn could have the same effect. You have to make the best decision you can with the information you have at the time.
A big thing with mergers is that the ALPA merger policy takes career expectations into account and protects upgrade slots of those on property before the merger announcement. So unless they announce the merger before you start there, you will be fine as only a couple of regionals are non-ALPA. RAH's only real choices for acquisition are ALPA carriers.
ppragman
No pasa nada.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Like so many other things, the airline industry is a harbinger of issues that will come into full bloom for other parts of the economy down the road.
Put simply, people are tired of being jacked around and worked to death. Back in the day, you worked for BigCo, you got paid, decent time off, a nice retirement and a no hassle heath care plan. In return, you gave your best to the company.
Since the 80's, the US has been on a productivity tear...and what's that mean? People are working harder on a per unit basis. They have to save for their own retirement, and pay a FAR larger share of the health care "benefit". In fact, rather than a expense to be managed (which helped to keep costs in check), many "benefits" are now profit centers...for someone, which means transferring and increasing the cost to employees is a GOAL.
And people are tired of it. And getting burned out. Better to be a plumber, turning a wrench for your cousin, doing your own thing in the company van, than answering to 7 bosses and filling out TPS reports.
Put simply, the cost/reward ratio is way out of whack, and not getting better anytime soon. Henry knew that to get an economy to support his cars, you needed people who could afford the product. That ideal has long since gone.
Socialism? Hardly. "Fair price for hassle involved" is nothing but capitalism. Complaining about the price of pilots, houses, cars or even the tea in china means you want someone else to step in and put their fat finger on the scale...which IS NOT the "free market".
If that's what people want, fine, but man up and admit it. I don't mind people working the system, but at least fess up that's what you're doing. Intellectual dishonesty is one of my big peeves.
Richman
Put simply, people are tired of being jacked around and worked to death. Back in the day, you worked for BigCo, you got paid, decent time off, a nice retirement and a no hassle heath care plan. In return, you gave your best to the company.
Since the 80's, the US has been on a productivity tear...and what's that mean? People are working harder on a per unit basis. They have to save for their own retirement, and pay a FAR larger share of the health care "benefit". In fact, rather than a expense to be managed (which helped to keep costs in check), many "benefits" are now profit centers...for someone, which means transferring and increasing the cost to employees is a GOAL.
And people are tired of it. And getting burned out. Better to be a plumber, turning a wrench for your cousin, doing your own thing in the company van, than answering to 7 bosses and filling out TPS reports.
Put simply, the cost/reward ratio is way out of whack, and not getting better anytime soon. Henry knew that to get an economy to support his cars, you needed people who could afford the product. That ideal has long since gone.
Socialism? Hardly. "Fair price for hassle involved" is nothing but capitalism. Complaining about the price of pilots, houses, cars or even the tea in china means you want someone else to step in and put their fat finger on the scale...which IS NOT the "free market".
If that's what people want, fine, but man up and admit it. I don't mind people working the system, but at least fess up that's what you're doing. Intellectual dishonesty is one of my big peeves.
Richman
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
And a fairly fast upgrade for that airframe...
ppragman
No pasa nada.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
I seem to remember the same thing being said about Mesa a few years ago...
Max Power
Well-Known Member
All the current legacies were failing at one point too. Airways multiple times and bankruptcies. A different set of circumstances to be sure, but I wouldn't count RAH out yet. Airline managers are adept at not giving a shatauqua about labor and how their poor management affects us.
It's been beaten to death here, but it's the business model all these regionals were founded on that's broken. And they have no way to fix it besides paying more money. But it seems the legacies won't give them anymore money, so it's on them.
I'm concerned about my future at tiny C5, who doesn't have the money, resources or equipment that RAH has. It used to be " Well, you are flying a rattly old turboprop, but you can upgrade fast." But it's a challenge to upgrade because we can't fill classes now to replace those who leave (both CA and FO). Everyone is having staffing issues,and I'm close to upgrade,so I don't want to go to another regional. But should I consider it? We've had people leave for Compass that were near the top of the list a year ago and have turned down upgrade there. I could go to RAH and be based at home, at least currently.
I don't think anyone can see where this(the industry) is going for certain. Do I want to be at the bottom of Republics list or near the top of my current one if flying is reduced? Will my company be here in six months? Will Republic? Comair and Eagle proved that no one is safe.
Damn. So brutally honest, and completely true. Especially the bit about Henry Ford. And about not being honest about " working the system." Best post on here in a long, long time.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
I think things are a little different than when COMAIR went under. The assumption is that when a company files for bankruptcy (if it gets to that), they are liquidated. This only occurs if that is beneficial to creditors for that to happen. In the case of Republic something is very different now. Pilots are a valuable commodity and rather than see Republic just go away I think another regional, if it gets to that point, will purchase the certificate to get the pilot pool. Remember, when COMAIR went under flying jobs were hard to come by and any regional needing pilots could find 250 hour wonder pilots in the gutter outside any flight school willing to work for free. Today? Not so much.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
From an outside perspective of someone who isn't flying 121 but tries to keep up with the industry drama, I'm lead to think the only way for things to get better long-term for guys starting 121 careers at the regionals is for several of them to go under. A lot harder to play musical airplanes when there isn't much competition to do so, and perhaps if this were to happen and the pilot groups increased their strength(along with pay raises and what), major airline partners may find it much more economical to just take back a chunk of the regional flying. Short term, lots of people on the streets, some will get hosed big time and leave the career, but for those who do make it and those who enter after them, it will be a better place. I have personal friends at the majority of regionals out there and obviously I don't want to see them on the streets, however, I wonder what would have happened if say PSA took the initial Eagle stance and just allowed the airline to be shut down and others followed. Short term, lots of negativity. But if a few years from now only the operationally expensive regionals with decent contracts were left standing and people didn't flock to any alter-ego or new-entry regionals with rock-bottom pay that are started up, what do you guys think would happen? Just curious.
Honestly, this is exactly what needs to happen IMO. It scares the piss out of me. But this is what needs to happen. And the regional ship jumping that's happening right now isn't helping things, AT ALL. IMO, it's no different than voting in concessions.
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