8710 question - AATD and Simulated Instrument

killbilly

killbilly

Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Ran into something that seems ambiguous to me on IACRA, and my CFII is out of pocket for a few days so I'm curious about what you guys do here. Note - I will be asking the DPE what he wants to see, too, but I'd still like to know what you guys think:

IR student (me) has logged time both in a Redbird LD and in regular C172s.

In the logbook, a typical entry for a session in the AATD (which the Redbird is) will show something like 1.4 TT, 1.2 simulated instrument. Same relationship applies on the entries with the actual airplane - maybe 1.4 TT, 1.2 under the hood.

Here's the question, though: On the 8710, there are entries for AATD time and Instrument time. So, do you enter the Airplane Simulated Instrument + the Simulated Instrument in the AATD for that field?

Or are they kept separate? Simulated Instrument (airplane) in the Instrument Field and Simulated Instrument (AATD) in the AATD field?

The help link on the IACRA form wasn't helpful, or I was just brain fried after four hours of trying to figure out all of my logbook entries.

Thanks in advance.
 
I used to lump it all in together but on the CFI applications was told simulator should be split out - so you use both Sim IFR and Simulator columns.

For logbook entries, make sure Day + Night = TT and Single Engine + Multi Engine = TT - just a quick check.

Also, examiner will like to see your long X-C for Instrument tabbed.
 
ahw01 said:
I used to lump it all in together but on the CFI applications was told simulator should be split out - so you use both Sim IFR and Simulator columns.

For logbook entries, make sure Day + Night = TT and Single Engine + Multi Engine = TT - just a quick check.

Also, examiner will like to see your long X-C for Instrument tabbed.
Click to expand...

Gotcha on the XC stuff. That's tabbed, actually. Thanks for the reminder, though.

But to the instrument time question - that's the one I'm fuzzy on and I don't quite understand your reply. I absolutely understand that Sim/AATD time ITSELF should be split out - the question is whether or not the INSTRUMENT TIME in the Sim/AATD should be added to the INSTRUMENT field or just left included in the AATD column?

Put another way - does the INSTRUMENT field of the 8710 really mean instrument time in a real airplane ONLY?

I've read through 61.65 and I know how much total can be counted, but it's the way the time is allocated is the problem for me. I need to be accurate.
 
I think Instrument = Instrument Airplane, and then added to Simulator gives you your total Simulated Instrument towards the rating.

I'll see if IACRA still has my old 8710...
 
My 8710s used to say - Instrument 60.2

The most recent, I split into 39.3 Instrument, 20.9 training device.
 
Assuming your sim is approved by the FAA in the ATD column enter all instrument instruction time logged in the ATD with CFII. It must be signed by the instructor in your logbook. If you have over 20 hours in ATD you can log that number of hours but only 20 may be used towards minimum requirements of p61. Do not include sim time anywhere in the "Total Time" or "Flight Time" columns.

In the Airplanes column enter all simulated and actual time in the aircraft, including dual instruction, hood time with non-CFII rated safety pilot, and solo (in future). Do not include any ATD time in the Airplane column. All hood time, even your pre-private pilot hood time should be included in this column but only instrument time with CFII may be counted towards minimums.
 
Doesn't the 8710 itself make it completely clear that device time is identified separately from aircraft time? I haven't seen the latest and greatest IACRA screen but that has been the case as far back as I can recall.

Edit: just looked at my last one a few months ago. Yep, it does.

Is the confusion that device time can be used to substitute for a certain amount of flight time? That doesn't make a difference. A device is not an "airplane" and device time does not go into any field asking for information abouT airplane time.
 
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Yeah there are separate blocks for both categories. It doesn't stop you putting nothing in one of them though.
 
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