Southwest denies emergency phone call before take off

[CaptBill]

Interesting as an outsider/newbie to hear what you guys have to say both about the cockpit crew/cabin crew dynamic, as well as prioritization/decisionmaking as captains in this situation.

My gut reaction is (again, as a guy with 0.0 hours of experience in the front end of a 121 flight), if the FA told me what specifically was going on, I'd do whatever I could to help her make that call, including using whatever comm resources I have at my disposal to help. Turn around and go back to the gate and let her off, use company comm networks to dispatch 911 to her residence, etc. It seems to me the right thing to do not only as a human being, but also something good for the company and customer relations.

But without that specific information about the suicidal threat, I'd be inclined to chalk it up to someone who simply didn't feel like they needed to comply with the FAA rules on cellular devices, and I'd probably let it ride like it did. If I'm reading the article correctly, the Captain was never told about the suicidal aspect, and thus never had the opportunity to even assess the situation, much less take positive action on it.

Either way, really tragic for all involved.

I'm with you on this one Hacker15e.

 

[MQAAord]

From what it sounds like in the article, she wasn't trying to call 911, she was trying to call the husband directly. So the FA wouldn't have been interfering with a 911 call. I think the wife SHOULD have been calling 911, and as a FA, on taxi-out, I'd actually be fine with that. Of course I'd tell the pilots right away what was going on, but I think a 911 call for such an event during taxi would be an acceptable thing to work with. Her trying to call him directly I think isn't the best course of action. At that point, he needs prompt emergency response. A 911 call is the best way to help him with the info we've been given.

 

[JordanD]

What are they going to do? Fire you for not assaulting a passenger and physically taking their phone away? All a FA can do is ask. They can't force anybody to do anything.

Not what I was getting at, but ATN's post gave me the impression of the FA just kind of telling them "go ahead and use your phone while we're taxiing around." What I was getting at was that the FA still has to do their job. If the person doesn't comply then that's on them.

 

[poser765]

From what it sounds like in the article, she wasn't trying to call 911, she was trying to call the husband directly. So the FA wouldn't have been interfering with a 911 call. I think the wife SHOULD have been calling 911, and as a FA, on taxi-out, I'd actually be fine with that. Of course I'd tell the pilots right away what was going on, but I think a 911 call for such an event during taxi would be an acceptable thing to work with. Her trying to call him directly I think isn't the best course of action. At that point, he needs prompt emergency response. A 911 call is the best way to help him with the info we've been given.

If my wife sends me a text telling me that she is about to kill herself I can almost guarantee you I am NOT going to commit to the most reasonable course of action. The first thing I am going to do is try to talk to my wife. The very first thing I do. Is that the wrong thing to do? Should I call 911 instead? probably, but at that point I am pretty emotionally compromised.

I can also promise you that if I got a text like that I am getting off the plane. I don't I don't care if the plane hasn't pushed or is taxing out, I AM getting off.

The lady should have stood up for herself more. That is pretty clear in hindsight, but it's kind of weird how people react to perceived authority figures...especially in am environment that is way outside of their norm like flying. She very well could have felt helpless and like there was nothing she could have done.

 

[MQAAord]

I get the emotion, but if you get a txt from a loved one saying they've already acted on a suicide attempt... Please call 911 first. Try to call them after the 911 call, but at that point they NEED emergency response. If they've swallowed a bottle of pills, there's not whole lot you can do for them at that point. Sorry. They need EMS transport to a hospital yesterday.

Edit to add:

There's a huge difference between "I just wanna die, I'm gonna kill myself" and "I just took a whole bottle of pills, goodbye". The first is a general plea for help, and can be responded to by family/friends and is generally not an immediate-crisis situation. The second is a fulfilled action and requires immediate professional emergency response.


Again we still do not have the WHOLE STORY of the specific SWA incident. I do think more effort should have been made to get the lady off the plane, but we're only hearing one [obviously and understandably emotional] person's story.

 

[mshunter]

There are some comments here that do a great job of showing the "ME ME ME" mindset. You're a crew. Yes, the final decision rests with the captain. But the best trips I've had are the ones where we were a crew, not a captain and his people.

 

[mshunter]

From what it sounds like in the article, she wasn't trying to call 911, she was trying to call the husband directly. So the FA wouldn't have been interfering with a 911 call. I think the wife SHOULD have been calling 911, and as a FA, on taxi-out, I'd actually be fine with that. Of course I'd tell the pilots right away what was going on, but I think a 911 call for such an event during taxi would be an acceptable thing to work with. Her trying to call him directly I think isn't the best course of action. At that point, he needs prompt emergency response. A 911 call is the best way to help him with the info we've been given.

Her mind obviously wasn't in the right place. At that point, use your own judgment, and put yourself in her shoes.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Again we still do not have the WHOLE STORY of the specific SWA incident. I do think more effort should have been made to get the lady off the plane, but we're only hearing one [obviously and understandably emotional] person's story.

Southwest has refused to respond to inquiries. That tells us that there isn't another side of the story that would make them look better.

 

[poser765]

I get the emotion, but if you get a txt from a loved one saying they've already acted on a suicide attempt... Please call 911 first. Try to call them after the 911 call, but at that point they NEED emergency response. If they've swallowed a bottle of pills, there's not whole lot you can do for them at that point. Sorry. They need EMS transport to a hospital yesterday.

Edit to add:

There's a huge difference between "I just wanna die, I'm gonna kill myself" and "I just took a whole bottle of pills, goodbye". The first is a general plea for help, and can be responded to by family/friends and is generally not an immediate-crisis situation. The second is a fulfilled action and requires immediate professional emergency response.


Again we still do not have the WHOLE STORY of the specific SWA incident. I do think more effort should have been made to get the lady off the plane, but we're only hearing one [obviously and understandably emotional] person's story.

For most people is literally going to be the emotion they act on. When emotionally distressed we often don't make the best decisions. I like to think I am a stoic, rational, and grounded man. With all of that said, though, if something like this happens I can easily see myself losing a bit of my grounding and making the decision that isn't the perfect one.

The reason we can fly a successful V1 cut, or the FAs can evacuate a 70 seat jet in under a minute while it's on fire has to do with training. We drill and we practice so when it DOES come time to act it's automatic and we make the right call. There is also a spot in the back of your head that is already primed for this to happen. A part of my is expecting an engine failure.

I am never expecting to get a text from my wife saying she is going to kill herself. I've not prepared for that...so when it comes I am naturally going to respond poorly.

 

[MikeD]

If my wife sends me a text telling me that she is about to kill herself I can almost guarantee you I am NOT going to commit to the most reasonable course of action. The first thing I am going to do is try to talk to my wife. The very first thing I do. Is that the wrong thing to do? Should I call 911 instead? probably, but at that point I am pretty emotionally compromised.

If ever there is a time you need to be taking a reasonable course of action, that would be it. Cold reality, but true. Trained, or not. Otherwise, you're probably not helping.

 

[derg]

I don't know but if she knew he was despondent over the last few weeks, what in the world was she doing taking off on a "Girls Weekend" to New Orleans.

Call me a heartless bastard if you'd like, but I'm not buying the story.

 

[MikeD]

I don't know but if she knew he was despondent over the last few weeks, what in the world was she doing taking off on a "Girls Weekend" to New Orleans.

Call me a heartless bastard if you'd like, but I'm not buying the story.

There does seem to be factors not adding up. Possible pieces of the puzzle that aren't fitting with the others, regarding the backstory. You may be a heartless bastard, but I'm a cynical bastard.

 

[derg]

There does seem to be factors not adding up. Possible pieces of the puzzle that aren't fitting with the others, regarding the backstory. You may be a heartless bastard, but I'm a cynical bastard.

Step off the jet, call 911.

SWA is not responsible for his suicide. She isn't responsible for the suicide either.

A magic telephone call wouldn't have prevented it.

If she said, "I need to get off the aircraft, my husband is committing suicide, this is an emergency" she most likely would have been able to get off the jet and continue the telephone call but unless she assertively communicates what the circumstance is, she's simply another non-compliant passenger and the cabin crew doesn't know if she's ordering Chipotle or Dell tech support.

It's easy and convenient to pick on the airlines for every decision they make, but at the end of the day every "OMG, check out this story on Facebook" airline story is missing the element of personal responsibility.

 

[Mark815]

When did we stop treating other people like humans?

When reliability and on time performance started ruling the industry. I've learned in the airlines that for the most part, people don't matter, performance does.


I don't know if I buy the whole story, because if it were me, I'd do everything in my power to get off that plane. If that meant opening the door and popping the slide while being greeted by some police officers at the bottom, so be it. The only thing I'd care about at that point is making sure my message got across that someone was about to kill themselves back home.

 

[derg]

When reliability and on time performance started ruling the industry. I've learned in the airlines that for the most part, people don't matter, performance does.


I don't know if I buy the whole story, because if it were me, I'd do everything in my power to get off that plane. If that meant opening the door and popping the slide while being greeted by some police officers at the bottom, so be it. The only thing I'd care about at that point is making sure my message got across that someone was about to kill themselves back home.

People do matter. Greatly. They're the only thing that matter however we have rules for your comfort and safety.

The one person you delay a flight for because she is on the telephone, is another person that is now late for a meeting.

The one person who demands a hot meal because her child demands it, is another person who paid for a particular level of service that does not receive it.

Personally, I would have communicated the situation, stepped off the aircraft, called 911 including a common friend or family member.

 

[Goonie]

Good grief, just let the woman make the call! We all know it isn't dangerous. I don't care if you're on short final on a CAT III approach, let her make the damned call!

This.

We are not delivering effin launch codes. Stop the plane, let her make the calls she needs to make, return to the gate if it is required. This was not the FAs desicion to make. They should have called up front.

Why is this even debatable??

To say nothing could have been done is asinine. She could have talked to him while another person got cops to the house.

 

[Goonie]

In that case, there WAS little he did, he called the cops and they got there in time. I'm all for calling 911 and getting emergency response there ASAP. I'm talking about her actually getting him on the phone and trying to talk to him. What is she going to do/say from that distance, and in a time-pressure situation.

Without having all info in this case, I think more effort should have been made to get a 911 call off. That's what the guy needed most.

Who knows what she would have said but what would be the harm in letting her TALK HER HUSBAND DOWN FROM KILLING HIMSELF? They could have stopped the plane. Who cares if the airline loses money. This was not a decision the FA should have made. She should have called up front.

The buck stops with the fat guy in the left seat and this is one of those moments you let him or her make the call.

 

[MQAAord]

Who knows what she would have said but what would be the harm in letting her TALK HER HUSBAND DOWN FROM KILLING HIMSELF? They could have stopped the plane. Who cares if the airline loses money. This was not a decision the FA should have made. She should have called up front.

The buck stops with the fat guy in the left seat and this is one of those moments you let him or her make the call.

According to the article he'd texted he'd already taken a bunch of pills. The deed was done. She couldn't have talked him down from it, he'd already done it.

Now, I *again* agree (as I'd stated before) that the pilots needed to be brought in on the situation ASAP. And again, we still do not have -all- the information regarding this incident.

 

[Goonie]

According to the article he'd texted he'd already taken a bunch of pills. The deed was done. She couldn't have talked him down from it, he'd already done it.

Now, I *again* agree (as I'd stated before) that the pilots needed to be brought in on the situation ASAP. And again, we still do not have -all- the information regarding this incident.

Sorry @MQAAord but we have enough of the story.

The plane took off without giving the lady a chance to stop her husband from killing herself. There is zero ways you can justify the plane taking off.

Did the FA know he swallowed a bottle of pills already? I get that you are trying to defend the FA, but human decency comes into play. Put yourself in her shoes. If your husband sent you that text would you give a rats ass about FAA compliance?

 

[Goonie]

I don't know but if she knew he was despondent over the last few weeks, what in the world was she doing taking off on a "Girls Weekend" to New Orleans.

Call me a heartless bastard if you'd like, but I'm not buying the story.

I know a guy that killed himself. Very unexpected. Lead a very happy life with a wife. Then one day his inner demons and depression got the best of him. People do a good job at hiding that stuff to save face as long as they can because we live in a society where people that are suicidal are classified as losers