I don't want to be "that guy" but...

dasleben said:
I'm just giving @Derg a little hell just for fun. But you do have me curious what you mean by "tight ship" in this context. I wonder what your captaining style will be like... :)
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Me too. I suspect it'll be a composite, though, of many of the guys and gals I've flown with. I learn something from everyone I fly with.

The cool thing about being an FO is that you get to see a LOT of different styles, and choose your own adventure if/when you get to sit on the left.
 
Plata said:
@Cal Goat re-read your first post and then re-read post 65. You went from a fairly alarmed perspective to one that might be characterized as "the guy isn't anywhere near as bad as I thought he was."

Did you learn anything about yourself?

Are you going to call the CP and admit that maybe you mischaracterized the captain's CRM, because you ought to.
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Nope because his CRM is still bad and our personalities don't mesh well. My discussion with the CP was regarding scheduling and the fact that I didn't think we communicated well, which is still fundamentally true.
 
Cal Goat said:
Nope because his CRM is still bad and our personalities don't mesh well. My discussion with the CP was regarding scheduling and the fact that I didn't think we communicated well, which is still fundamentally true.
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Too bad he's not a sleep talker :P
 
Luigi said:
Sorry for being off topic...

Haha I had to Jumpseat once and listened to the captains "final solution" to the crime problem in this country. his statement was that "We all know who is committing the crimes in this country...what 'people' so we just need to sterilize their woman and in a few years there will be no more crime" I said "yeah, didn't work for Hitler but he didn't have Americas resources"

It was pretty quiet for the next hour.
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Whooo boy. It's amazing the things that people think it is okay to say out loud. Normally a quick, "You do realize that you just said that out loud where I can hear it, right?" shuts them up. :)
 
You will fly with people you don't like.
You will fly with people with whom you disagree.
You will fly with people you've heard terrible things about.
You will fly with people you have a tough time communicating with.
You will fly with people who are nonstandard, unprofessional, maybe even unsafe.

What do you do? Avoid them as much as practical. When that fails, put on your big-boy pants, go to work, be a professional, do your job as best you can. Be ready to hit the e-stop as soon as things start getting unsafe and address the situation in accordance with your procedures and chain of command.

IMO (having been on both sides of this situation), calling the CPO was a big mistake. You couldn't have possibly expected the CP to let you out of work because you didn't like this guy, and you may have outed yourself as a whiner. Bad reputation to have.

A shot of Fireball says that when you do fly with Captain Marvelous, it's less than half as bad as you anitcipated and all this hand-wringing was for naught...
 
Toobdrvr said:
IMO (having been on both sides of this situation), calling the CPO was a big mistake. You couldn't have possibly expected the CP to let you out of work because you didn't like this guy, and you may have outed yourself as a whiner. Bad reputation to have.
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I disagree. First, some airlines do allow you to get out of a trip if you have a personality conflict, because they place CRM as a top priority. I'm not sure if I agree with this policy, but more than a handful of airlines have it.

Second, it gets you on the record as having tried to avoid a conflict just in case a severe conflict takes place on the trip and you have to remove yourself. If the airline tries to discipline you for refusing to fly in the middle of the trip after a severe CRM problem, you can point the arbitrator back to your phone call warning the CP ahead of time that you felt there would be a problem. This will almost certainly be a "get out of jail free card" unless the airline can show evidence that you were the cause of the CRM problem. Covering your ass is always a smart thing.
 
I don't entirely disagree, but...

As an example: my Airline provides FOs with a "No-Fly" list for monthly bids. If that fails, we usually have the ability to drop/swap to avoid. Nontheless, it is possible to get paired up with someone you REALLY don't want to fly with. While not official, I believe if all that fails, my company expects me to show up for the trip and do my best to make it work. If it doesn't, I honestly can't imagine being disciplined for not continuing down a safety-related path, regardless of how inconvenient my refusal to proceed will be...

Kinda' hard to argue with the IMSAFE checklist...
 
And I spent a few years receiving such calls, thanking the crewmember for making the tough call, and finding ways to get the operation back on track.

Different worlds, I guess.

Cheers!
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I disagree. First, some airlines do allow you to get out of a trip if you have a personality conflict, because they place CRM as a top priority. I'm not sure if I agree with this policy, but more than a handful of airlines have it.

Second, it gets you on the record as having tried to avoid a conflict just in case a severe conflict takes place on the trip and you have to remove yourself. If the airline tries to discipline you for refusing to fly in the middle of the trip after a severe CRM problem, you can point the arbitrator back to your phone call warning the CP ahead of time that you felt there would be a problem. This will almost certainly be a "get out of jail free card" unless the airline can show evidence that you were the cause of the CRM problem. Covering your ass is always a smart thing.
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This was and is my precise intent. I think people keep misconstruing my call to the CP as trying to rat this guy out as some kind of unsafe lunatic. No, my communication with the CP was, again, scheduling and CRM/personality related.

I told my CP that I bid avoided the captain because our first flight revealed what I felt was poor communication between the 2 of us, mostly being that this guy doesn't listen. Knowing that we are short staffed, I reached out to him in advance to avoid a potential delay or cancellation in case I felt I had to remove myself in the middle of the trip.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I disagree. First, some airlines do allow you to get out of a trip if you have a personality conflict, because they place CRM as a top priority. I'm not sure if I agree with this policy, but more than a handful of airlines have it.

Second, it gets you on the record as having tried to avoid a conflict just in case a severe conflict takes place on the trip and you have to remove yourself. If the airline tries to discipline you for refusing to fly in the middle of the trip after a severe CRM problem, you can point the arbitrator back to your phone call warning the CP ahead of time that you felt there would be a problem. This will almost certainly be a "get out of jail free card" unless the airline can show evidence that you were the cause of the CRM problem. Covering your ass is always a smart thing.
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How many people's no fly list were you on, lol? :bounce:
 
Toobdrvr said:
So how did the trip go?
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Fine. Like I said, I'm keeping the bid avoid in place, but I didn't ever come close to removing myself from the trip. Just a few instances of very clearly stating "Look man, I don't care about (whatever insane topic he was covering)." Or "I disagree and I'm not going to entertain fantasies that aren't supported by evidence." He kept quiet for much of the trip.

And I must also admit that there were a few subjects that we were able to have an actual conversation about. They were brief, though, because he does not communicate like 90% of adults that I know.
 
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