I don't want to be "that guy" but...

How would you answer that situational question in a Delta or United interview?

That's your answer.

That's a good answer. If I were on a United interview board (and I have been) and the applicant hesitated or him-hawed around about letting this behavior slip by, the interview would be over. Remember, we are hiring future captains and weak decision making will certainly draw a NO vote from any interview board. There may be more than one way to handle the process of any given situation, but don't ever allow anyone to convince you to compromise your professionalism and integrity. I promise you that there will be days in your future that having it will save your ass - literally.
 
That's a good answer. If I were on a United interview board (and I have been) and the applicant hesitated or him-hawed around about letting this behavior slip by, the interview would be over. Remember, we are hiring future captains and weak decision making will certainly draw a NO vote from any interview board. There may be more than one way to handle the process of any given situation, but don't ever allow anyone to convince you to compromise your professionalism and integrity. I promise you that there will be days in your future that having it will save your ass - literally.

Answering snap a picture and run to the CPO will also likely draw a no vote too. There is a systematic way to approach this situation as diplomatically as possible. Pro standards should have been contacted the FIRST time the OP had issues with this Captain. Since that wasn't done, Pro Standards is the next step if the issue isn't rectified after the trip begins.
 
Well, technically, if I had a problem with the captain (and I have) I'll address it on the ground in a timely fashion. If he's unresponsive, I'll have myself replaced and start a dialogue with professional standards. If he's dangerous, truly dangerous and not simply "he's following a new procedure which I do not like", I'll go to Pro Stan AND my LEC rep to discuss what the next move should be and how to handle a potential visit to the CPO.
 

Am I just being a whiny bitch?

I can't reconcile that tactic with the professional that I think I want to be. I need a more thought-provoking reply to my dilemma.

Tried handling this at the lowest possible level?

If you have to title this "don't want to be that guy", then you're already that guy.

Jack Ridley wants his likeness to stop being used by you.





:)
 
Remember, we are hiring future captains and weak decision making will certainly draw a NO vote from any interview board. There may be more than one way to handle the process of any given situation, but don't ever allow anyone to convince you to compromise your professionalism and integrity. I promise you that there will be days in your future that having it will save your ass - literally.

I agree with this sentiment in principle and I desperately want it to be true in my career, but I hope that anyone who has flown professionally can appreciate an FO having to think twice about approaching an issue such as this with a definitive resolution, because each situation is different.

Let's forget any talk of this guy nodding off, because that was not part of the experience I personally had with him. My experience was someone who seemed very disenchanted with the company or possibly his job and spent almost the entire 2 legs facing out the side window and babbling incessantly about conspiracies and the government.

Now I'm game to discuss any topic civilly; but this guy doesn't want to have a conversation, he wants to lecture you. This immediately (in my mind) creates a poor CRM environment because one person is clearly not interested in listening to what the other has to say.

We've all flown with a variety of personalities, and from the right seat, it's extremely rare to fly with a guy and decide that a bid avoid is necessary. Some guys talk non stop, some guys switch off the hot mic in between checklist items. Some guys always fly fast, some guys want to squeeze every penny out of the trip. Some guys want to convince you that Obama is the antichrist, some guys want to convince you that the company is dangerously mismanaged.

In all of these variations, we usually find a way to get the job done safely and to the standards that the company asks. Apparently some people can work with this guy. I thought our styles were too different after 1 day. I'm going back to try again because I have to and I'm taking my standard of professionalism with me.

Nevertheless, I wanted to get input from the various professionals that participate here. I'm not done learning.
 
Tried handling this at the lowest possible level?

If you have to title this "don't want to be that guy", then you're already that guy.

Jack Ridley wants his likeness to stop being used by you.





:)

Going to attempt it tomorrow.

Ridley is there for aspirational and inspirational purposes. I'd never claim to be that cool.
 
Going to attempt it tomorrow.

Ridley is there for aspirational and inspirational purposes. I'd never claim to be that cool.

In all seriousness, that above may possibly work depending on how you approach it, and normally should be the first step in any number of kinds of conflict resolution or prevention. Who knows, there may be some weirdly easy answer to this by trying.

Start by offering a stick of Beemans...
 
I'm definitely a stick to the rules guy. Most of this is theoretical, but people have asked, what would you do if the 'captain' forgot his medical and the FAA was riding along for example. Well that'd be between them, no covering from me - but people seem to dismiss that...

Seems to be an inherent culture everybody has each others back when they mess up - "but nobody died" is endemic in office culture here, seems to be an excuse for poor performance and people not doing their job. That's why I prefer working with the military when I get the chance.

Alex.
 
You're going to fly with a large amount of wackos and conspiracy theorists in your career and you just may as well accept that and get over it. The disregard of SOPs is another story but hard to quantify unless you have specifics. The dozin off at random time in critical phases of flight is the major problem. If it's in cruise and coordinated I wouldn't have a problem with it as I'd rather someone who is fighting sleep that hard to just rest so they are ready in approach and landing.
 
I've found that smacking the crap out of somebody with the USA Today when they fall asleep tends to end that behavior pretty quickly!
 
Now I'm game to discuss any topic civilly; but this guy doesn't want to have a conversation, he wants to lecture you. This immediately (in my mind) creates a poor CRM environment because one person is clearly not interested in listening to what the other has to say.

Regardless, the first step has to -- has to -- be directly engaging him about the concern personally.

Respectfully, offline, in a non-threatening way. That direct engagement may go nowhere and even result in a negative response, and if that's the case, then take it to the next level.

I see far too many folks (in life, not just in flying) who are just plain too frightened to directly engage people about these kind of things. Either they don't want to antagonize the situation, or they don't want to face personal embarrassment for themselves or the other guy, or are afraid of the result of bringing it up, etc. They'd rather go to that other guy's supervisor or to another organization, and let someone else take care of the problem. It is the workplace analog of passive/aggressive spouses who won't just tell you when something is bothering them. It is also a little like the cultural aversion folks have to shaming someone else or being shamed themselves.

This isn't what we should be doing as pilots. It isn't fair to the person who is doing something incorrect or offensive or unsafe to not directly tell them the truth (again, you can do this and still be tactful and respectful). Good CRM, real professionalism, isn't going behind someone's back and telling on them.

Again, absolutely nothing might result from talking to them about your concerns personally, but you are doing him and yourself a massive disservice if you don't speak to him plainly about your observations and concerns first before going to Pro Standards, ALPA, Chief Pilot, etc.
 
Those people are able to "hold their breath and play the game" during recurrent.
Almost everyone is able to slam the airplane through its paces at recurrent.

Which is why we have Professional Standards. The standard (management) way of handling these things is to pick both kids out of the sandbox, dust them off, and then give them a line check, and maybe send them to charm school if it's an egregious thing.

Which, of course, doesn't work.

Which is why we have Professional Standards. (Need the number, @Cal Goat?)
 
Me either. I'm too lazy for that level of effort!
I stick to the job the way the man more or less wants it done unless and until I see a reason to start scribbling outside the lines. (However, I make no pretense at being either laid back or "really standard" - since the people who make pretenses at that are neither laid back nor standard.)

After this week, in which I flew with a somewhat nonstandard Captain, I almost feel like I need retraining in the way they want the job done. If you do things the same way every time, you know when you're making a mistake.

We're still working on that whole "Captain is God" mentality with some of the super senior folks around here, and unfortunately, it's manifest itself with weak FOs becoming weak Captains too. (Or weak FOs becoming Captains who believe themselves to be Christ's messenger to the aviation industry, and aren't.)
 
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