Fighter Jocks

scoobs said:
So why can the Navy guys do it but not the AF?
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Just like there can be significant differences in culture and procedure between two different airlines that do the exact same type of flying, likewise there are cultural and regulatory differences between all of the services with respect to this kind of stuff.

scoobs said:
Is it possible to have normal hours in a fighter squadron if it was managed right? Guard/Reserve guys don't work as many hours correct?
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It isn't the flying itself that makes the days long -- it is the fact that every person who flies the airplane also has at least one full-time "ground" job that they have to also do. Additionally, since the all-volunteer military runs on an "up or out" philosophy (get promoted when it is your timeframe to be promoted, or you have to get out), everyone is scrambling to ensure they're tending to the non-flying job sufficiently to be promotable. Mix in with that the fact that most guys have more than one of these ground jobs, and nearly every one of these guys is a type-A, never-say-I-can't-get-something-done kind of guy, and it makes for a long, long workday every day...and sometimes even on days off (@hook_dupin, Laken-leave?).
 
Hacker15e said:
Just like there can be significant differences in culture and procedure between two different airlines that do the exact same type of flying, likewise there are cultural and regulatory differences between all of the services with respect to this kind of stuff.



It isn't the flying itself that makes the days long -- it is the fact that every person who flies the airplane also has at least one full-time "ground" job that they have to also do. Additionally, since the all-volunteer military runs on an "up or out" philosophy (get promoted when it is your timeframe to be promoted, or you have to get out), everyone is scrambling to ensure they're tending to the non-flying job sufficiently to be promotable. Mix in with that the fact that most guys have more than one of these ground jobs, and nearly every one of these guys is a type-A, never-say-I-can't-get-something-done kind of guy, and it makes for a long, long workday every day...and sometimes even on days off (@hook_dupin, Laken-leave?).
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Doesn't that change in the Guard/reserve?
 
Hacker15e said:
Mix in with that the fact that most guys have more than one of these ground jobs, and nearly every one of these guys is a type-A, never-say-I-can't-get-something-done kind of guy, and it makes for a long, long workday every day...and sometimes even on days off (@hook_dupin, Laken-leave?).
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It's this kind of work ethic that is incredibly valuable in the outside world. I know several former fighter dudes who are now I-bankers, a dude in med school, and several successful entrepreneurs. The ability to quickly filter, target, and complete the engagement translates very well.


The Air Force has no idea that they've created a force of people who can quickly sift through the bovine feces and deliver results. That skill is far more valuable than any amount of turbine PIC.
 
scoobs said:
Doesn't that change in the Guard/reserve?
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No, not at all.
Guard and reserve aviators have the same responsibilities as their active duty brethren.
However, they don't have M-F (Sat&Sun) to get things done.
We, or at least in my unit, don't have the "quib" that the AF guys have talked about, simply because we have a good command structure that understand priority and mission readiness.

With that said, many of our aviators also have duties to fill, such as S-1,2,3,4 etc. (personal, Intel, training, logistics)

So these folks are triple dipping: civilian job, military flying, and their collateral duty.
 
Nark said:
No, not at all.
Guard and reserve aviators have the same responsibilities as their active duty brethren.
However, they don't have M-F (Sat&Sun) to get things done.
We, or at least in my unit, don't have the "quib" that the AF guys have talked about, simply because we have a good command structure that understand priority and mission readiness.

With that said, many of our aviators also have duties to fill, such as S-1,2,3,4 etc. (personal, Intel, training, logistics)

So these folks are triple dipping: civilian job, military flying, and their collateral duty.
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Guard/Reserve has become nothing more than mini-active duty, in the past 15+ years.
 
MikeD said:
Guard/Reserve has become nothing more than mini-active duty, in the past 15+ years.
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That's true for many MOS' besides the aviation side. It's normal for us to get 5-10 extra mission requests outside our normal drill weekend. It helps with the pocketbook, but the extra duty drives civilian employers insane.
 
ahw01 said:
I saw an F-15 parked at DVT once - presumably for the cafe chilli
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Should've grabbed a pic of that. I can't imagine the approval needed for that, especially with a barely over 8000' runway and no arresting gear. I could see a USN fighter being allowed, but an F-15 would be exceptionally rare.
 
I know! I think i was a bit shocked. Seems more plausible with Luke nearby but still, not sure who it was!
 
In the E model, at least, 8k was the min runway length that did not require higher level permission.

The lack of arresting gear might, however.
 
Have any of you had the chance to take part in a air show that wasn't scheduled at your particular base? Either taking a aircraft for a static display or having to perform a demo? If so, what are the perks of it and the cons? Any extra $$ for your time?
 
Area 5150 said:
Have any of you had the chance to take part in a air show that wasn't scheduled at your particular base? Either taking a aircraft for a static display or having to perform a demo? If so, what are the perks of it and the cons? Any extra $$ for your time?
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Never done a demo, but took a T-38 to OSH and tried to take an F-15E to RIAT (but was weather CANX) for statics.

The AF is hyper concerned about making sure it doesn't portray an image to the public of people out goofing around in government equipment on government time, so the limitations and required preparation beforehand sap a lot of the fun out of it.

Standing in a fight suit next to a '38 in Aeroshell Square at OSH was pretty awesome...and I had no shortage of offers of company from female attendees.

There was no extra pay or bennies from Uncle Sam for that, though.

Cons? If you screw up, it happens in a very public way. It is a break-even proposition at best.
 
Area 5150 said:
Have any of you had the chance to take part in a air show that wasn't scheduled at your particular base? Either taking a aircraft for a static display or having to perform a demo? If so, what are the perks of it and the cons? Any extra $$ for your time?
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Air shows, Fly-overs, Flight aerobatic Demos... Best case scenario you get to keep your wings and make a little cash TDY.


Case in point, my unit just hosted e original guys that formed our unit in Vietnam for their 50 year reunion. I'm floored with the amount of respect they paid us. And we did do a flight demonstration with a helicopter that in no way violated any standing requirements and also since it was training for one of the pilots did not actually meet the requirements of a "public demo" since it was a closed audience..... Somebody up at Division is already trying to smash whoever was in that cockpit because "blah I don't like it! I didn't approve this!" This despite having the brigade PAO and everybody involved at all the levels below.... Just part of the culture that could take the fun out of blow jobs if the Army got to run them.

Don't get me wrong. If I had a chance to take a 40 million dollar gunship to the Dayton Air Show and be a rock star in my home town I'm there.... But there is a reason the guys on the T-birds and Blue Angels are so heavily vetted. It is a zero defect world when your that close to the public.

Video in question that has people's titties twisted...

Hurry it won't be up long.
 
have done static display.......always pretty entertaining the questions you field from the general public, but there definitely is no $$$ involved other than the govt picking up the gas ticket.......and such a thing does have to be approved through official channels since it involves said expenditure as well as various other considerations. Typically (at least on our side of the military), there is a quarterly-ish list that comes out with CNAF approved (that's the office of the Admiral in charge of all of Naval Air) events with requests for participation from local units.....ie events on the east coast and atlantic/SE would pop in Oceana, west coast events in Lemoore, etc. You can find one you want, route up a request, get your command involved, and then go if it gets approved. That is all predicated on the bean counters having the funds available to send you (ie the cost of sending an aircraft).
 
Back in the day, I used to take a government credit card and an F-14 and head from Miramar (San Diego) to the Cleveland Airshow - two or three years in a row. One year I actually did an unscheduled flight routine when another aircraft had a maintenance issue and left a hole in the schedule. I guess things were a bit more lax back then.
 
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