Student pass rate?

bc2209

bc2209

Well-Known Member
Through possibly some ignorance on the subject and not being able to find it in the FAR's:

Is there a student first time pass rate that CFI's must maintain to stay out of trouble with the FSDO/FAA?

I know that to renew the CFI you must have an 80% but how about overall and in general?
 
bc2209 said:
Through possibly some ignorance on the subject and not being able to find it in the FAR's:

Is there a student first time pass rate that CFI's must maintain to stay out of trouble with the FSDO/FAA?

I know that to renew the CFI you must have an 80% but how about overall and in general?
Click to expand...
First off you don't have to have a 80% pass rate to renew your CFI. The 80% pass rate would simply qualify you for a gold seal providing you sent enough students during that previous 24 month period. Secondly, I have never heard of a certain pass rate to keep the FSDO from knocking. I have however seen a CFII who had to do a 709 ride to keep his instructor certificate after a single student failed the same checkride three times in a row and the DPE felt he wasn't component.
 
I was told don't endorse the same student more than twice for the same ride. The flight school should have a way of handling this, or if an independent, use another CFI you know.

I doubt they have automated flags in the system (they can't track sign offs for eg) but am sure DPEs and ASIs can pick up trends, so definitely be upfront with them, learn as much as you can from each checkride.

Edit: you can renew with a FIRC, or 80% (gold seal) etc
 
Typically, a FSDO looks for a pattern of failures. Don't make a habit of signing off students who are questionable if they will pass, and you'll have nothing to worry about.
 
The FSDO does look at CFI pass rates at renewal based on first time pass rate but typically only to verify the records the CFI renewal applicant submits.
Keep good records and don't ever sign someone off UNLESS they are ready.
I did see a 709 on a CFI who had a CFII applicant fail three times. The CFII applicant was also 709'd for their Instrument rating. It was a wake up call for the large 141 school, the Instructors and the applicants.
Incidentally both passed, the CFI moved to a better 141 school and I lost track of the applicant.
 
CFIs and pass rate are so far off the FSDO's radar usually.

Like @mikecweb said, I had a horrible pass rate because I had to train all the lazy dumbasses no one else could train. I never got a call from the FSDO.
 
Inverted25 said:
First off you don't have to have a 80% pass rate to renew your CFI. The 80% pass rate would simply qualify you for a gold seal providing you sent enough students during that previous 24 month period. Secondly, I have never heard of a certain pass rate to keep the FSDO from knocking. I have however seen a CFII who had to do a 709 ride to keep his instructor certificate after a single student failed the same checkride three times in a row and the DPE felt he wasn't component.
Click to expand...

Technically you need an 80% pass rate to renew based on activity, (which also requires you must have signed off at least 5 students), but of course there are several other ways to renew a Flight Instructor Certificate and none of them take pass rate into account.

Interesting about the 709 checkride. Up until now I had only heard of a 709 being ordered in response to an accident or incident.

mikecweb said:
I had <25% pass rate as a CFI. True story.
Click to expand...

Goonie said:
CFIs and pass rate are so far off the FSDO's radar usually.

Like @mikecweb said, I had a horrible pass rate because I had to train all the lazy dumbasses no one else could train. I never got a call from the FSDO.
Click to expand...

I have a terrible pass rate as well as I've only signed one student off for a checkride and he failed. It was his second attempt at the instrument checkride and he had been signed off by a different instructor for the first attempt. He wasn't very motivated (probably understandably so, since he had been working on this absurd combined private/instrument training course we had at the university I instructed it for four years), and it took several months before I felt he was ready for the second attempt.
 
A 709 can be done for an instructor that has a bad pass rate. I think the biggest red flag for them is if one student has multiple bust. If you sign a student off twice for one check ride and they fail both of them don't do the third attempt. Hand it off to some other CFI.
 
Goonie said:
A 709 can be done for an instructor that has a bad pass rate. I think the biggest red flag for them is if one student has multiple bust. If you sign a student off twice for one check ride and they fail both of them don't do the third attempt. Hand it off to some other CFI.
Click to expand...

Also, never send a student back to the same examiner for a third attempt.

Even if the examiner is trying their best to be fair, the student walks into the checkride with "I can't win with this guy" in their minds before they even walk into the room. I've seen this happen with a couple of my old school's chiefs. They have a reputation of failing almost all the stage checks they give (one guy only has about a 30% pass rate) and the students know it.
 
The 80% pass rate is a general overall generic unwritten guideline for GA inspectors to use. Kinda like the +/- 100', +/- 10° used to be, before the PTS, but each case, scenario, FSDO, inspector caseload, etc., is unique.
Get a good rep. Don't sign off students you are not absolutely sure of, become the "go to guy", and then when you are really working with the guy who cannot pass a ride because of real "checkitus", the fsdo guy will know.
 
ahw01 said:
I doubt they have automated flags in the system (they can't track sign offs for eg) but am sure DPEs and ASIs can pick up trends, so definitely be upfront with them, learn as much as you can from each checkride
Click to expand...


FWIW the FAA can track sign offs and pass fail rates. If an instructor has a high fail rate vs sign offs and if they seem to be concentrated in a specific area such as instrument, the FAA can require a 44709 ride for the instructor.
 
I'd like to learn more about FSDO interaction and record keeping for the FAA or the TSA.

Being with the NY IFO there's little communication, but if there's a TSA audit process map or just an understanding of what puts you in the concern category, I'd like to know more.

Alex.
 
flyslow_va said:
FWIW the FAA can track sign offs and pass fail rates. If an instructor has a high fail rate vs sign offs and if they seem to be concentrated in a specific area such as instrument, the FAA can require a 44709 ride for the instructor.
Click to expand...

Yes, they could. I think in this environment today, it is unlikely. Most FSDOs have been understaffed and underbudgeted for years. They have too high of a workload to focus on this, unless something specific happens.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top