Ameriflight

[Swedican]

When you leave AMF if you are able to get past the toxic attitude they have and teach their instructors then maybe, yes.

FSI does not have a 100% pass rate either. I don't know where you get that notion. At my last company we had probably 10% of the guys fail their Lear type in Tuscon.

My 100% comment was paraphrasing your original "close to 100%" statement. I take offense to this toxic attitude bs because I bust my ass to instruct (yes, teach) the people who come through the doors here. Most of us do, and from the stories I've heard about this place, I don't blame the attitudes of the former employees.

That being said, I wouldn't characterize it with blanketing statements for the current staff. We understand that it's an introductory 135 company for a lot of the new hires, and take it's not going to be beautiful sunshine and meadows in the sim from the start.

If I see a basic lack of instrument flying skills, manifested through numerous sims, then we have a problem. It isn't just flows or call outs, a lot of it is the basics. Where do you draw the line at instruction? How many additional sims can be given to bring someone up to the level needed to send them to basic line training? It's not an easy call. Would I like to see everyone who comes in through the door pass? Absolutely, and most of us here do whatever we can to help. At a certain point, though, it becomes evident that some people just aren't cut out for it. Say what you will, but I stand by my company's training. Now I'm going to go hydrate with kool aid.

 

[Swedican]

Have you ever done any training at Flight Safety or CAE? And I'm not asking you that in a mean or antagonistic way.

Flight safety is very different from AMF. AMF still operates on the ole skool method of training in reverse engineering an aircraft system and in some cases, cascading failures during training, orals, and sim events. Training is at a rapid pace.

While Flight Safety and CAE teaches more to the point on only things you can control. There's a lot of nuts and bolts,that we as pilots, have no control over. They really hold your hand and methodically walk you through the aspects of how to operate the aircraft.

Ameriflight expects you to know your flows and have read through systems by day one of training. If you don't have it learned, you risk a serious chance of not passing training.

Negative, but I understand the flight safety ideals and mentality. I work along side of them at one of our training facilities, and I've talked with plenty of current and former people who have done their training. I don't disagree with the way they approach things at all. I do, however, think that the amount of information AMF gives you is a great tool that can be used and prepares you very well for line training. I can think of a few scenarios on the line, where the AMF training went beyond what somewhere like FSI would have taught me... Because of it, it lead to better circumstances.

The people I see that take a similar flight safety course as ours, come out after 2 weeks and don't necessarily know or fly the airplane better, but they are qualified. For our operation, it just doesn't always work.

 

[Swedican]

Sure you can, you prohibit circling approaches, problem solved. How many reputable carriers actually allow for circling these days?

For AMF's operation, does it even make sense to prohibit that? I'm going to say not a chance. Guess we can't be a reputable company.

Every time I'm on here, I feel like you get a hard on each time you bash the company or the training department. Lighten up man.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

For AMF's operation, does it even make sense to prohibit that? I'm going to say not a chance. Guess we can't be a reputable company.

Every time I'm on here, I feel like you get a hard on each time you bash the company or the training department. Lighten up man.

That's because there isn't a "training department". There is a department that knows how to ship manuals, set you up for failure, and evaluate from day 1. I'm not bashing the company, I'm telling it how I see it. Everything they do is 100% reactionary, there is nothing done that is proactive.

How many 121 carriers allow circling to land? Does UPS allow planes to circle to land? If the big brown tails can't do it with 2 pilots and new technology, 1 young, inexperienced pilot sure as hell shouldn't be allowed to do it. But the problem is, management isn't willing to tell UPS no. They bend over backwards for brown.

 

[KLB]

Negative, but I understand the flight safety ideals and mentality. I work along side of them at one of our training facilities, and I've talked with plenty of current and former people who have done their training. I don't disagree with the way they approach things at all. I do, however, think that the amount of information AMF gives you is a great tool that can be used and prepares you very well for line training. I can think of a few scenarios on the line, where the AMF training went beyond what somewhere like FSI would have taught me... Because of it, it lead to better circumstances.

The people I see that take a similar flight safety course as ours, come out after 2 weeks and don't necessarily know or fly the airplane better, but they are qualified. For our operation, it just doesn't always work.

Yeah. I was at AMF for 7.5 years and went through 4 different training courses.

Since AMF, I've gone through a training program at FSI and a training program at CAE.

The thing that makes training at the professional facilities better than at AMF is that I feel that they will do everything possible to ensure that I pass. They are not under the gone to get it done within a 5 sim budget. It hasn't ever taken me additional Sims to knock out training at either of those facilities. It nearly took a level three clearance from the president of the company to get me and my sim partner an extra brasilia sim session. It's just different. You'll see when you go through your first training event outside of AMF.

 

[Inverted]

The entire point of training is to teach you, not to figure out what you don't know, then make you feel stupid. I have done 3 jet types and at no time was I made to feel inferior, because I had an instructor who knew more than me. Every single training event at AMF turned into a battle between me, and the instructor trying to show me up on knowledge. Why????

Negative, but I understand the flight safety ideals and mentality. I work along side of them at one of our training facilities, and I've talked with plenty of current and former people who have done their training. I don't disagree with the way they approach things at all. I do, however, think that the amount of information AMF gives you is a great tool that can be used and prepares you very well for line training.

The amount of info AMF gives you is largely irrelevant. The amount of operational "need to know" info that is given is probably 25% of the knowledge they expect you to know. You don't disagree with the way they approach things because you haven't been through a 121 or FSI/CAE training program. Lots of improbable and worst case scenarios shoved down your throat to push you. It can be done better and more realistically.

 

[z987k]

You'll see when you go through your first training event outside of AMF.

Pretty much this.

@Swedican, the first time you go to FSI you're going to be like wow that was so easy, they just give easy checkrides. After the 2bd type/initial you get from FSI/CAE and a few hours on the line later, you'll see the difference.

Where do you draw the line at instruction? How many additional sims can be given to bring someone up to the level needed to send them to basic line training?

The answer to this question is one thing that is so different. The FSI answer is whatever it takes to get you proficient. That is why you are there. To learn. And it's their only job.

Every instructor at FSI I've ever had has told me before they've ever seen my fly a airplane/sim and has no idea what my background, flight time etc is - if you are not ready or fail the checkride, then I have not done my job and have failed you. Every one of them(that I've had) sees a students failure as a failure on them more than a failure of the student. There's exceptions to everything, but can you see how that kind of attitude leads to such a better experience, a LOT more learning(the goal), and such a high success rate?

 

[KLB]

So that" I don't appear to be completely negative about AMF training... There were some great training captains the flew the line at AMF. It was just initial chieftan training that really bothered me and many others. These were the guys that were essentially CFI's trying to hit the line that were too wet behind the ears to understand that they knew nothing about flight training. Some of them were honestly unprofessional in the training environment. There were others that had no desire to actually be training and we're just in it to build time. Where at FSI and CAE, most of those guys were there because they wanted to be there. All the trainees fill out surveys at the end of training. Negative remarks on these surveys affects an instructors ability to get a raise. If an instructor gets too many complaints against them, they're fired.

There is no one to complain to at AMF when the training captains are being a jackass. You'd just be labeled a problem child.

When I was recruiting and interviewing for AMF, I'd recommend guys that I thought would be great candidates for training captains. They just had the personalities that fit the bill of great training instructors. I don't think that any if them were ever given the opportunity to do it.

My thoughts and suggestions to fix the training problems at AMF go something like this:

1. Don't hire anymore Riddle 500hr wonders to be training captains. They are just time building and their hearts aren't in it.

2. Hire seasoned line guys as training capains. AMF could entice them to want to do it with a 20% pay overdue and a week on week off schedule. I guarantee you guys would be falling all over themselves to do it.

3. All trainees should have to do surveys on how their training event went and training captains should be held accountable.

4. Training should be extended some to help those that may not catch on as fast as others. It's not that some of these pilots a terrible airmen. It's just that it may take them a bit longer to get a handle on things.

5. Treat people with respect. Some of those same "yellers" were some of same ones that flew line like crap and were scared to go TDY because they were uncomfortable flying into places that they've never been to. Real tough guys they were...

 

[Roger Roger]

I really should write a blog about my experience at AMF. But, that would require periodic updating, and I just don't care that much, frankly.

Here's my single biggest issue with Ameriflight; I am on their clock 83 hours a week. I get paid for 40, 48 if I work for Saturday, which as of last Saturday, became mandatory. I am working 6 days a week. Mandatory. They'll call Monday a "half day". I don't. Work is work.

Upgrades; We are totally short on 1900 pilots. And Metro pilots. Instead of upgrading qualified in base guys, they're going outside to hire street captains into the 1900. When they are putting upgrades out to bid, they are awarded based on merit. A guy that they just upgraded to the 1900 had to go TDY for 3 weeks to "earn it".

The equipment; I am so sick of flying around in airplanes that look like flying trash dumpsters. I'm sick of squawking airplanes, with video and photos and having it come back to me "could not duplicate". I've had a dead compass for 2 weeks. Ish does not work; "Checks in standards" they say.

The expectation of AMF is for me to appear "professional" and to "represent the company in the highest possible light" at all times is asinine. If the equipment that you fly looks like a clapped out trash dumpster, I could be wearing a custom fitted Captains' uniform standing next to it, and I'd only look out of place, not like a professional pilot.

So... about that bonus; don't care. Too little, too late. Take care of your equipment. Make the mechanics do their job which includes keeping airplanes looking nice. Put a paint job on them. Staff the company properly; don't tell me that "The PA31 is properly staffed" when I work 6 days a week, and there is no am or pm reserve for our base. Fix the training department by inserting qualified personnel into the department. A 23 year old former intern CFI with an Embry Riddle degree does not equal qualified. I could elaborate, but just don't care enough to. Glad I got the experience and the contacts that I did.

Really? You're complaining about the paint on a FREIGHT PLANE? I mean it's cool to fly nice looking equipment and all, but for crying out loud, the boxes don't care. Sorry that it doesn't look nice in your photographs. Also this is starting to sound a lot like the last 3 jobs you've held. Wonder what the common factor in all of them was....

 

[jmre]

Some interesting comments in which I would like to add the best training to the worst I have experience in my flying career are big purple, FSI, Pan Am, mesa,and amflight! I do all I can to steer people away from companies not interested if you get through the training or not especially if you're making a good effort. I am sorry there are too many amflights out there, be careful.

 

[Tommay85]

So that" I don't appear to be completely negative about AMF training... There were some great training captains the flew the line at AMF. It was just initial chieftan training that really bothered me and many others. These were the guys that were essentially CFI's trying to hit the line that were too wet behind the ears to understand that they knew nothing about flight training. Some of them were honestly unprofessional in the training environment. There were others that had no desire to actually be training and we're just in it to build time. Where at FSI and CAE, most of those guys were there because they wanted to be there. All the trainees fill out surveys at the end of training. Negative remarks on these surveys affects an instructors ability to get a raise. If an instructor gets too many complaints against them, they're fired.

There is no one to complain to at AMF when the training captains are being a jackass. You'd just be labeled a problem child.

When I was recruiting and interviewing for AMF, I'd recommend guys that I thought would be great candidates for training captains. They just had the personalities that fit the bill of great training instructors. I don't think that any if them were ever given the opportunity to do it.

My thoughts and suggestions to fix the training problems at AMF go something like this:

1. Don't hire anymore Riddle 500hr wonders to be training captains. They are just time building and their hearts aren't in it.

2. Hire seasoned line guys as training capains. AMF could entice them to want to do it with a 20% pay overdue and a week on week off schedule. I guarantee you guys would be falling all over themselves to do it.

3. All trainees should have to do surveys on how their training event went and training captains should be held accountable.

4. Training should be extended some to help those that may not catch on as fast as others. It's not that some of these pilots a terrible airmen. It's just that it may take them a bit longer to get a handle on things.

5. Treat people with respect. Some of those same "yellers" were some of same ones that flew line like crap and were scared to go TDY because they were uncomfortable flying into places that they've never been to. Real tough guys they were...

^^^That

I didn't do the Chieftain, but the yelling coming from over there while in the 99 sim was ridiculous. We paused the Sim at one point.

I don't know if it's like that anymore, but if it is, that's a shame.

Metro was the best for me. The hardest and most intense airplane has the best training. Of all the planes, it's needed here for sure, so that's good.

I think the main thing with the bigger stuff is that they take so long to load that you can be fairly relaxed the entire time. The 99 is the hardest on the ground between it, the Metro, and the Brasilia IMO. That thing can be loaded poorly or tip over in a hurry while you're trying to do your other duties.

99 was ok. Ground and Sim were great I thought. The only annoying thing was that my training captain was popping caffeine pills in the morning and was just way intense at 5 in the morning... haha

I only had 1 day to study for the Brasilia, so that was intense to "catch up". That was a challenge I put on myself though. Its definitely geared towards at least a week of study beforehand.

 

[Inverted]

Really? You're complaining about the paint on a FREIGHT PLANE? I mean it's cool to fly nice looking equipment and all, but for crying out loud, the boxes don't care. Sorry that it doesn't look nice in your photographs. Also this is starting to sound a lot like the last 3 jobs you've held. Wonder what the common factor in all of them was....

Maybe the commonality is that they have been les than stellar companies? I'm not sure though...

 

[flyboy6585]

I have said it before, but I trained at a part 61 FBO, then was a CFI/I/MEI at a aviation university, then was trained by AMF in the PA31, BE99, and SA227, then went to the Air Force and did pilot training there...

AMF was not better nor worse than any of the other training environments of which I have been a student. Yes, they do emphasize areas that others look over, and they look over areas that others emphasize, but their training is solid and what is needed considering they are typically training relatively green pilots to fly twins at night while single pilot.

My first flight in the Air Force the instructor said to look at my feet...when he said look up we were 10 knots above stall speed 75 degrees nose high with 150 degrees of bank. I never had been trained to do such "violent" unusual attitudes, but in the 2 years since that I have used those skills a few times. My point, each company/training event should emphasize the areas that are most pertinent to their operation. Like it or not, flows, basic instrument skills, and systems knowledge are exceptionally important when you are flying single pilot and the proverbial •! hits the fan. If you can't learn the skill sets they require go to an airline...two pilots, a rock solid autopilot, a FA, and full up dispatch (while all bringing unique and different complexities and issues) reduce the workload considerably when you have emergencies/abnormal situations/diversions. Any 1200 hours pilot can take off, cruise, and land when the weather is clear and all systems are at 100%.

 

[GX]

Really? You're complaining about the paint on a FREIGHT PLANE? I mean it's cool to fly nice looking equipment and all, but for crying out loud, the boxes don't care. Sorry that it doesn't look nice in your photographs. Also this is starting to sound a lot like the last 3 jobs you've held. Wonder what the common factor in all of them was....

Nice dig, Roger. I would have expected a little better than that from you. I am taking issue with the appearance of a FREIGHT PLANE. The explanation is simple, and I'll address it in a moment. As far as the airplanes looking nice in my photos, well, two of my photos of the Chieftain are the most viewed and most voted on Chieftain photos on both Facebook and Flightaware. This is one.

Pretty sexy looking airplane if you ask me. I've made that airplane look pretty good, IMHO. In this photo, I reduced the amount of soot that is covering the right main gear. I removed grease and other contaminants from the nose gear door. Look closely at the underside of the cowlings and you can see the amount of soot and other contaminants covering the nacelle. Notice that tone change from the top of the airplane to the underside? What's that? Filth. Take a look at N600TS with the rainbow shot, and tell me if you see something different. We haven't even started talking about the interiors. I can post pics of that, if you wish.

You're right in that boxes don't care. Boxes aren't judgmental, opinionated, or connected to social media. People are. People do talk. People do form opinions and judgments based on the appearance of equipment. When you see a guy who drives a clapped out POS car that is poorly maintained, one can't help but form opinions about that person. The quip that "Boxes don't care" may have held water 20 years ago, but when someone can post something and it can get transmitted around the world in moments, the stakes are a bit higher.

My issue isn't solely about the paint. It's about the overall appearance and cleanliness of the airplanes. They're filthy. Always. Caked in oil, soot, and grease. What lies underneath all of that? Expecting me to look underneath all of that crap to conduct a proper pre-flight is unrealistic. I would clean the aircraft myself if the materials were supplied to me. Expecting me to pay out of pocket to purchase materials to clean the airplanes is unrealistic, especially when it takes 6 to 8 weeks to get re-reimbursed for my expenses.

Beyond that, the expectation at Ameriflight is that we, as pilots, are expected to conduct ourselves as "professionals". Being viewed as professionals is a complete picture. My aircraft and I are viewed as a singular unit. They are not separate. The lame duck reasoning that "boxes don't care" is the logic of an owner lost in his own ego and the 1980's. It so simply short sighted and ridiculous that it shouldn't even be repeated.

As far as the remark about "my last 3 employers" goes, go ahead and re-read what I wrote about Air Supply Alaska and draw better informed opinions.

 

[GX]

^^^That

I didn't do the Chieftain, but the yelling coming from over there while in the 99 sim was ridiculous. We paused the Sim at one point.

I don't know if it's like that anymore, but if it is, that's a shame.

It is. In my last sim.... Dallas. I was scheduled to VCC in Albuquerque the next morning at 9am. I had an 11am sim in Dallas that didn't get started until 1300 because well, not important. I also had a 6 hour drive in front of me. At 1630 I left the sim after the sim had become completely unusable due to the number of failures that were being thrown at me at one time. My attitude indicator was spinning clockwise,HSI spinning counter clockwise, airspeed indicator bouncing from 0 to 160, the VSI fluctuating between 3000 FPM up and down, and the altimeter in a rapid climb. "KEEP FLYING IT!!" He said. Left there feeling abused, but with a signature and a 6 hour drive to Albuquerque.

 

[z987k]

It is. In my last sim.... Dallas. I was scheduled to VCC in Albuquerque the next morning at 9am. I had an 11am sim in Dallas that din't get started until 1300 because well, not important. I also had a 6 hour drive in front of me. At 1630 I left the sim after the sim had become completely unusable due to the number of failures that were being thrown at me at one time. My attitude indicator was spinning clockwise,HSI spinning counter clockwise, airspeed indicator bouncing from 0 to 160, the VSI fluctuating between 3000 FPM up and down, and the altimeter in a rapid climb. "KEEP FLYING IT!!" He said. Left there feeling abused, but with a signature and a 6 hour drive to Albuquerque.

The oh so common flying into thunderstorms with no gyros?

 

[Inverted]

Boxes also don't care how well you fly, or how well you take into consideration the comfort level of the occupants in the back. It isn't very widespread but there is a tiny stigma regarding freight pilots and finesse.

Bo I totally feel you on aircraft cleanliness. I have had two business owned who are in charge of hiring (outside of aviation) who will take the applicant out to lunch but have the applicant drive in his/her car. If the car looks like they live in it, with garbage everywhere, how organized is that persons life or priorities?

But unlike you I wouldn't clean that aircraft if they gave me the supplies. The company makes enough money to have these planes kept in better shape. I get that they are old but let's face it, there is no replacement for the Metro, there is no replacement for the 1900. You can replace the 99 with King Airs but at a huge acquisition cost. Why not take better care of the bread and butter?

 

[Inverted]

The oh so common flying into thunderstorms with no gyros?

And with one engine, and getting the most complex approach instructions with an obscure non published hold. It could happen!!!!!

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Pretty sexy looking airplane if you ask me. I've made that airplane look pretty good, IMHO. In this photo, I reduced the amount of soot that is covering the right main gear. I removed grease and other contaminants from the nose gear door. Look closely at the underside of the cowlings and you can see the amount of soot and other contaminants covering the nacelle. Notice that tone change from the top of the airplane to the underside? What's that? Filth. Take a look at N600TS with the rainbow shot, and tell me if you see something different. We haven't even started talking about the interiors. I can post pics of that, if you wish.

Of all the possible planes, you pick 59973 and the POS that thing is? Seriously, that plane was always the slowest of the bunch, least equipped of the bunch and just generally •tiest to fly. Call me back when you get a good picture of 3525G or 3555D. 3555D was by far my favorite plane at AMF, I knew it would never let me down.

 

[Inverted]

@Finhunter89 care to weigh in on your training experiences? Congrats by the way!