Ameriflight

UAL747400 said:
@Inverted mentioned too about the disparity to what people train in now compared to what AMF operates, 2-3 weeks from arrival to checkride, eesh! What's indoc/initial at a regional/135 charter/normal type rating? 6-8 weeks with no delays?
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My current company zero to hero was only 3 weeks. It was one week of INDOC and CL30 school was 14 days. Really the length of your training depends on how long your initial course. GIV school is a month long. The difference is that most pilots at this level are (should be) already knowledgeable of 135 regs and operations.
 
flyingbum said:
Yeah that's what I keep hearing, Skywest has a great training program, which would be perfect for me since I'm a total newbie with no 121 time and a little over 1500.
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You could do just fine at AMF, I'm not trying to scare you. But the caliber of pilot that they want is a small percentage, or at least not the majority. It's not overly difficult. You just have to be an excellent self motivator, a sharp stick with good IFR skills. But you you have a finite time to achieve the skill level they want. Some do it, some don't. Between the ones that don't make it through the interview, and those that don't make it though training once hired, I bet it's a 10-20% success rate...
 
KLB said:
My current company zero to hero was only 3 weeks. It was one week of INDOC and CL30 school was 14 days. Really the length of your training depends on how long your initial course. GIV school is a month long. The difference is that most pilots at this level are (should be) already knowledgeable of 135 regs and operations.
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My initial including Indoc at my current company was 5 weeks. Although we are 135, my company uses an approved 121 training program. Not difficult but that's because it was a very well thought out program.

2 week aircraft training is not bad. I did that for the XLS. It was fantastic and was well prepared. I think AMF is horrible at effectively managing their time. The amount they want you to know prior to showing up and how briefly cover very technically the systems they want you to know for the check ride are unlike other training programs.
 
I really should write a blog about my experience at AMF. But, that would require periodic updating, and I just don't care that much, frankly.

Here's my single biggest issue with Ameriflight; I am on their clock 83 hours a week. I get paid for 40, 48 if I work for Saturday, which as of last Saturday, became mandatory. I am working 6 days a week. Mandatory. They'll call Monday a "half day". I don't. Work is work.

Upgrades; We are totally short on 1900 pilots. And Metro pilots. Instead of upgrading qualified in base guys, they're going outside to hire street captains into the 1900. When they are putting upgrades out to bid, they are awarded based on merit. A guy that they just upgraded to the 1900 had to go TDY for 3 weeks to "earn it".

The equipment; I am so sick of flying around in airplanes that look like flying trash dumpsters. I'm sick of squawking airplanes, with video and photos and having it come back to me "could not duplicate". I've had a dead compass for 2 weeks. Ish does not work; "Checks in standards" they say.

The expectation of AMF is for me to appear "professional" and to "represent the company in the highest possible light" at all times is asinine. If the equipment that you fly looks like a clapped out trash dumpster, I could be wearing a custom fitted Captains' uniform standing next to it, and I'd only look out of place, not like a professional pilot.

So... about that bonus; don't care. Too little, too late. Take care of your equipment. Make the mechanics do their job which includes keeping airplanes looking nice. Put a paint job on them. Staff the company properly; don't tell me that "The PA31 is properly staffed" when I work 6 days a week, and there is no am or pm reserve for our base. Fix the training department by inserting qualified personnel into the department. A 23 year old former intern CFI with an Embry Riddle degree does not equal qualified. I could elaborate, but just don't care enough to. Glad I got the experience and the contacts that I did.
 
GX said:
I really should write a blog about my experience at AMF. But, that would require periodic updating, and I just don't care that much, frankly.

Here's my single biggest issue with Ameriflight; I am on their clock 83 hours a week. I get paid for 40, 48 if I work for Saturday, which as of last Saturday, became mandatory. I am working 6 days a week. Mandatory. They'll call Monday a "half day". I don't. Work is work.

Upgrades; We are totally short on 1900 pilots. And Metro pilots. Instead of upgrading qualified in base guys, they're going outside to hire street captains into the 1900. When they are putting upgrades out to bid, they are awarded based on merit. A guy that they just upgraded to the 1900 had to go TDY for 3 weeks to "earn it".

The equipment; I am so sick of flying around in airplanes that look like flying trash dumpsters. I'm sick of squawking airplanes, with video and photos and having it come back to me "could not duplicate". I've had a dead compass for 2 weeks. Ish does not work; "Checks in standards" they say.

The expectation of AMF is for me to appear "professional" and to "represent the company in the highest possible light" at all times is asinine. If the equipment that you fly looks like a clapped out trash dumpster, I could be wearing a custom fitted Captains' uniform standing next to it, and I'd only look out of place, not like a professional pilot.

So... about that bonus; don't care. Too little, too late. Take care of your equipment. Make the mechanics do their job which includes keeping airplanes looking nice. Put a paint job on them. Staff the company properly; don't tell me that "The PA31 is properly staffed" when I work 6 days a week, and there is no am or pm reserve for our base. Fix the training department by inserting qualified personnel into the department. A 23 year old former intern CFI with an Embry Riddle degree does not equal qualified. I could elaborate, but just don't care enough to. Glad I got the experience and the contacts that I did.
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I can understand your frustrations. The maintenance issues you wrote about are inexcusable. My recommendation to you is to flight out refuse to fly it if its not working correctly. Service failures get things taken care if in a hurry. If there is a service failure, write an incident report explaining how you've written the same maintenance issue up x amount of times and that it always comes back with the same issues. Don't fly it unless it's fixed, MEL'able or able to be deferred. Don't do anyone any favors. It's your certificates on the line if you get caught flying a broken airplane. Also squawk it where it breaks.

I have to say from what I've been observing around the industry, AMF has been recruiting like mad. The problem is the industry is in trickle up mode right now. Its moving like a raging river and quality job opportunities are plentiful. For example, I took a little bit of a pay cut when I left AMF. I spent 8 months at that gig before leaving for my current gig and doubled my pay. People are moving up left and right. There just isn't many pilots out there to cover the industry. The regionals are having the same issues. Throw on top of that difficult training, a high wash out rate, and they have a real conundrum on their hands. The same issues happened during the regional boom suprisingly. The upgrading out of seniority and hiring into turbine equipment are nothing new. Even the mandatory extra work day deal was done then also.

My advice to you is to keep building that experience until you get yourself in a position to get something better whether that be within or outside of the company.

As far as upgrades go, call the ACP'S personally. I never filled out a bid sheet for base assignments or upgrades. They prefer to be able to pick the people being put on their team. :)
 
The MX issues have always been a huge point of contention. That is a cultural issue that hasn't changed in 30 years. When AMF was Cal Air the FAA shut them down for MX practices. The FAA must turn a blind eye to it now days...
 
Here is what I was told about upgrades...

If they hire a street captain, they need to train one guy, the new street captain. If they upgrade someone that is already in the company, they need to train you for the upgrade, PLUS they need to hire and train someone to replace you. It is easier and cheaper to just street hire a 1900 or metro guy.
 
[QUOTE ="tbstanto post: 2428677, member: 28219"]Here is what I was told about upgrades...

If they hire a street captain, they need to train one guy, the new street captain. If they upgrade someone that is already in the company, they need to train you for the upgrade, PLUS they need to hire and train someone to replace you. It is easier and cheaper to just street hire a 1900 or metro guy.[/QUOTE]

Yep. That's the logic that they've always had on the issue. The problem with this is historically, the guys qualified to be street captains typically don't last long because they are also qualified at other places. They typically use AMF as a place to float them until something better comes along.

I saw 5 street captains leave within six months of being hired because better opportunities came along. Atleast,with the guy coming through the ranks, you'd get more time out of them while they build experience to qualify for other jobs. And that would be cheaper in the long run rather than training up a new street captain for the same position every six months. But what do I know?
 
tbstanto said:
Here is what I was told about upgrades...

If they hire a street captain, they need to train one guy, the new street captain. If they upgrade someone that is already in the company, they need to train you for the upgrade, PLUS they need to hire and train someone to replace you. It is easier and cheaper to just street hire a 1900 or metro guy.
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Yep, you know who else realizes that it's cheaper to hire right into an airplane rather than upgrade a current employee? Every company on the planet... You know who chooses to do the right thing because they realize that practice is less than favorable to the pilot group? All the good companies. I totally feel your frustrations on upgrading. That is when the luster starts to really wear off. You put in your hard work, little pay, no respect, only in hopes of upgrading, and it doesn't happen because it's a little cheaper for the company to street hire. The quickest way to start a mutiny is to hire street captains when there are guys waiting to upgrade.

My advice would be that if you are in turbine equipment already (even the 99) just stay in that until you leave. There is no point in taking another training contract to upgrade into a typed airplane there. You can get hired into just about any job right now, and whether or not you have a Metro type really doesn't matter.
 
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With some of the recent open bids though, people aren't bidding for or taking them when awarded.

It isn't just the company trying to fill holes efficiently. I can only speak for BQN/SJU though... ALL of our direct hires were a result of no-one bidding for, or backing out of a bid they were awarded. So they were filled from the outside.
 
UAL747400 said:
With some of the recent open bids though, people aren't bidding for or taking them when awarded.

It isn't just the company trying to fill holes efficiently. I can only speak for BQN/SJU though... ALL of our direct hires were a result of no-one bidding for, or backing out of a bid they were awarded. So they were filled from the outside.
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There is that for sure.
 
z987k said:
Ameriflight should stop doing all training and leave it to professionals. I promise if FSI did the training they'd have very close to a 100% pass rate. And certainly not because FSI training is easy because you're paying for it. They actually know how to train people to proficiency. It's all they do.
Also I don't understand the checkride and amf training after FSI. You can do the 293/7 in the sim.
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Fyi You can't do the .297 check in the Sims here, they won't allow for a circling approach.

Additionally, you may want to consider whether or not AMF wants a 100% pass rate. If they're looking for a specific grade of pilot (as you've stated), not everyone will be guaranteed to meet that bar of approval. That doesn't mean Flight Safety's instructors are better; you can't tell me that with a 100% pass rate, people aren't squeeking by who shouldn't because FSI is being paid to provide a service. Do I need to start dropping buzz words like Colgan and Buffalo? They're not here to fail everyone who walks in the door, if anything there's a ton of additional instruction given. At a certain point, if it's just not happening, you've to cut the cord.

Seriously, you guys are a broken record with this stuff. I would refute any of the major points on here if I thought it would do any good. I'm going to go back to my "evaluations" now, maybe one day I'll learn how to instruct.
 
Swedican said:
Fyi You can't do the .297 check in the Sims here, they won't allow for a circling approach.

Additionally, you may want to consider whether or not AMF wants a 100% pass rate. If they're looking for a specific grade of pilot (as you've stated), not everyone will be guaranteed to meet that bar of approval. That doesn't mean Flight Safety's instructors are better; you can't tell me that with a 100% pass rate, people aren't squeeking by who shouldn't because FSI is being paid to provide a service. Do I need to start dropping buzz words like Colgan and Buffalo? They're not here to fail everyone who walks in the door, if anything there's a ton of additional instruction given. At a certain point, if it's just not happening, you've to cut the cord.

Seriously, you guys are a broken record with this stuff. I would refute any of the major points on here if I thought it would do any good. I'm going to go back to my "evaluations" now, maybe one day I'll learn how to instruct.
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When you leave AMF if you are able to get past the toxic attitude they have and teach their instructors then maybe, yes.

FSI does not have a 100% pass rate either. I don't know where you get that notion. At my last company we had probably 10% of the guys fail their Lear type in Tuscon.
 
Swedican said:
Fyi You can't do the .297 check in the Sims here, they won't allow for a circling approach.

Additionally, you may want to consider whether or not AMF wants a 100% pass rate. If they're looking for a specific grade of pilot (as you've stated), not everyone will be guaranteed to meet that bar of approval. That doesn't mean Flight Safety's instructors are better; you can't tell me that with a 100% pass rate, people aren't squeeking by who shouldn't because FSI is being paid to provide a service. Do I need to start dropping buzz words like Colgan and Buffalo? They're not here to fail everyone who walks in the door, if anything there's a ton of additional instruction given. At a certain point, if it's just not happening, you've to cut the cord.

Seriously, you guys are a broken record with this stuff. I would refute any of the major points on here if I thought it would do any good. I'm going to go back to my "evaluations" now, maybe one day I'll learn how to instruct.
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Have you ever done any training at Flight Safety or CAE? And I'm not asking you that in a mean or antagonistic way.

Flight safety is very different from AMF. AMF still operates on the ole skool method of training in reverse engineering an aircraft system and in some cases, cascading failures during training, orals, and sim events. Training is at a rapid pace.

While Flight Safety and CAE teaches more to the point on only things you can control. There's a lot of nuts and bolts,that we as pilots, have no control over. They really hold your hand and methodically walk you through the aspects of how to operate the aircraft.

Ameriflight expects you to know your flows and have read through systems by day one of training. If you don't have it learned, you risk a serious chance of not passing training.
 
One thing I can say is that you won't have a problem with any other training if you can survive AMF training.

I only know of one guy who failed out of training after leaving. He was a 1900 guy who left for Allegient.
 
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